JensenPark Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 have a look at these pics. Don't want to use the word 'amazing' for such a tragedy. Maybe 'incredible'? http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3820263/3-dead-in-Renobr-air-show-crash.html I guess 'lucky' that he crashed no into the bandstand or it would have been 200 dead. Look at the last pic. No pilot in site. Assuming he was strapped in properly, you'd think we'd see his head. Odd. Quote
2. Administrators Jabo Posted September 17, 2011 2. Administrators Posted September 17, 2011 I wish they wouldn't use the term 'stunt pilot', I feel it gives people an entirely incorrect view of the professionalism and experience of the pilots. Odd about the third pic though, I wonder if the pic has been tweaked... Jabo Quote
1. DDz Quorum FoolTrottel Posted September 17, 2011 1. DDz Quorum Posted September 17, 2011 I wish they wouldn't use the term 'stunt pilot', I feel it gives people an entirely incorrect view of the professionalism and experience of the pilots. Odd about the third pic though, I wonder if the pic has been tweaked... Jabo Yes, really odd that you can't see the pilot. I zoomed in on the pic... and... there is something weird going on with the pixels there... Quote
T_O_A_D Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 At that point should the G-force be pulling him back into the seat? If so I'm thinking he is already slumped over and dead, and tangled in something, or is alive bent over trying desperately to fix something that is stuck or broken. Quote
DD_Bongodriver Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 I am still more curious as to why the tailwheel is extended and another pic shows the elevator trim tab potentially missing. Quote
T_O_A_D Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 Yeh I was looking at the elevator too, and on this pc at work I can't see if its still there. Quote
Zooly Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 Would the loss of one of the trimtabs really cause such a catastrophic loss of control? Quote
PropNut Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 I would bet that it is a doctored photo of the plane on the ground. Quote
DD_Bongodriver Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 at 500mph yes....here is my purely speculative sequence of events based on a few videos I've seen, first I believe there 'was' some sort of mechanical failure (the tailwheel makes me believe something went wrong in the aft section) the trim tab is harder to confirm, either way it really did seem to me the aircraft made a sudden pitch up from a level attitude, so the pilot was not under any g loads until the pitch up, I believe that was an effect of a failure, this 'may' have put the pilot unconcious through the rest of the sequence, the continuous pitch up resulted in the aircraft stalling out and flicking putting the aircraft inverted right above the crowd line, the pitching force was still in place and the aircraft pulled through vertical straight into the crowd below, good chance the pilot was unconcious because I heard no reduction of thrust. Quote
DD_Bongodriver Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 Have just seen another photo posted at the 1C forum showing clearly the trim tab hanging off........end of debate, the aircraft made a massive pitch up due to speed and the pilot probably blacked out, the tailwheel was probably forced down because of the high g. Quote
1. DDz Quorum Painless Posted September 21, 2011 1. DDz Quorum Posted September 21, 2011 Have just seen another photo posted at the 1C forum showing clearly the trim tab hanging off........end of debate, the aircraft made a massive pitch up due to speed and the pilot probably blacked out, the tailwheel was probably forced down because of the high g. ~S~ Good friends, Glad to still be here. I think it's fair to say that Sid, Artie, Squawk and myself now have a very special bond that goes way beyond a mutual interest in sheep ! We will be posting all the photos soon including three incredible shots which Squawk took of "Galloping Ghost" at around 300ft full throttle heading straight for us !! Bongo is right about what happened. From what the four of us have been able to put together speaking to various people after the incident (including other race team members), the elevator trim tab broke off (it has now been recovered), which caused a 460-500mph snap pull up generating around 15G. This would have been enough to black out or even kill Jimmy Leeward possibly breaking his seat mounts. The side on photo, shows nothing in the canopy as the plane was diving. This means that the P51 flew itself from the moment he pulled up off the racing line. It climbed up to around 400 - 500ft banking right over our heads and to the rear of the grand stand and continued over the top of a kind of loop and then came down full throttle 75 to 80 deg to the vertical. That's why when we looked up over our left shoulders it was nose on. There was no time to react at all, not even time to stand up, it just whizzed over our heads and slammed into the VIP enclosure right in front of us. There was no fire, no smoke,no explosion, just a loud thud and millions of pieces and dust. The plane just disappeared ! They estimate that it was doing around 400mph on impact. We saw chairs tables and people scattered around but it was a miracle to see folks get up who were really close. We think the impact point was somewhere between 75yards to 100yards from our seats as the crow flies. Being elevated in the grand stand meant that there was nothing but fresh air between us and the impact crater but not one piece of debris came our way. It all went up, away, left and right.. I think I can speak for Sid Artie and Squawk when I say that we are.......... four lucky sons of bitches !!! My heart goes out to the poor families who have lost loved ones and to the many people still fighting to survive or cope with appalling injuries !!S!! Thanks for all the kind words chaps. ~S~ Pain......less. Quote
Jediteo Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 Good to hear you are Ok Painless, I must say, you did look rather dashing in the hat and shades. Quote
DD_Arthur Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 Hello Mick, thanks for the post. Very, very good to have you all back safe and sound. Quote
DD_Bongodriver Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 Who knows....maybe there was a special DangerDog looking out for you guys that day, I hope you guys will come to terms with what you witnessed.....seeing people die stays with you. Quote
BluBear Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 Just glad to hear you're all OK mates! Terrible shame for the families who have lost loved ones as you say, but bloody hell it could have been so much worse. Look forward to flying with you soon chum. Quote
1. DDz Quorum Painless Posted September 21, 2011 1. DDz Quorum Posted September 21, 2011 Who knows....maybe there was a special DangerDog looking out for you guys that day, I hope you guys will come to terms with what you witnessed.....seeing people die stays with you. ~S~ Bongo, BluBear, Believe me we toasted and thanked DD_Blairgowrie, DD_Klinger and every known deity several times with JD and Bacardi !! LOL If it had gone through the stands where we were or into the "midway" (the merchandise stall area), then I would imagine 100's could have died ~S~ P. Quote
Flyboy583 Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 Guys, all I can say is glad you all are ok!!! Looking at those pictures it is hard to derive what happened.... Mechanical failure or heart attache, time will only tell! Rgds Leon Who knows....maybe there was a special DangerDog looking out for you guys that day, I hope you guys will come to terms with what you witnessed.....seeing people die stays with you. ~S~ Bongo, Believe me we toasted and thanked DD_Blairgowrie, DD_Klinger and every known deity several times with JD and Bacardi !! LOL ~S~ P. Quote
Sweper Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 Painless mate! Glad to see your ugly mug again And Sidley, Squawke and Artie of course! Thanks for your view of what happend. Me was a bit worried when I first watched BBC News that morning. Because we new you guys were there, and that is too blody close for an old grumpy Git to take. Like me. I perfectly understand that you got heavily intoxicated with anything fluid after this. Welcome back mates! Quote
T_O_A_D Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 Welcome Home! So very glad and relieved, that none of you were taken from us. 15G I'd say that was enough not only for a black out but to of actually tore his aorta when the Heart pulled down from it. I mentioned that to the guys at work the other-day when we were talking it over at lunch, but I didn't know the Gforce estimation. I only based it on how I felt at 4 G when I flew stunts once. My guts sloshed around inside like a blender and my lower back killed me for a couple of days afterwards, I had no G-suit. Quote
DD_Bongodriver Posted September 21, 2011 Posted September 21, 2011 I seem to recall from my ATPL theory the human body can physically survive an instantaneous 20 g in the vertical plane and 45 g in the horizontal. Quote
PapaBear Posted September 22, 2011 Posted September 22, 2011 Hi guys, so glad your back safe and sound. That was a bit to close for comfort, such a shame.Our hearts go out to those affected by this tragedy. Quote
BadAim Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Absolutely stunning. I'm so glad you guys are OK. Things could so easily have gone differently. I'm drinking a toast to my four stalwart com padre's and their guardian angel right now. Quote
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