We need to talk...

[Crash]

1 hour ago, Jabo said:

Let me see if I have this right - I currently own BoS and BoM (both premium) so although the Kuban map would be in my install (eventually) I could still only fly on the Stalingrad or Moscow maps? That would seem to make sense.

One big drawback with BoX, no Beaufighter

On line any map that the server hosts, off line ones you bought simples.

[Jabo]

Is the planeset affected too?


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[DD_Bongodriver]

you can't fly anything you don't own basically but you will see the entire plane set in multiplayer as AI or other players who own them.

[FoolTrottel]

20 minutes ago, Jabo said:

Is the planeset affected too?


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Me thinks yes, and no. You will only be able to fly the planes included with the game/map you paid for, and the ones you got separately (collector planes).
The other planes will be in the map, as AI, or piloted by people who did spend money on them.

Not sure though, I concluded this from reading left and right, and have not verified it ... !

[FoolTrottel]

9 minutes ago, bongodriver said:

you can't fly anything you don't own basically but you will see the entire plane set in multiplayer as AI or other players who own them.

Hm, that was close ... Oh well, glad my post was 'correct'

[Jabo]

Thought as much, thanks guys

[DD_Arthur]

12 hours ago, Jabo said:

One big drawback with BoX, no Beaufighter

Good point, well made.  I can however see a Mosquito in BoX within two years.    In the meantime we'll just have to put up with the P38!

By the middle of January the BoX series will comprise thirty-four flyable planes,  five maps with multiple seasons and a coop mode very similar to IL2 1946.

In the spring they plan on introducing a re-designed GUI which will give multiplayer mode a Hyperlobby type interface for enhanced hosting followed by the Spitfire mk. IX, the Bf109 G-14 and sometime in the summer the FW190 A8.  They are just going to keep going now..........

In the same timescale that it has taken the BoX series to get this far - around four years -  Team Fusion will have (hopefully)  released a total of three patches for CLoD.  In that same timescale DCS WW2 has released two planes and one map.

This isn't a swipe at DCS or CLoD.  There is simply no substitute for a well organised, driven team of full-timers.  Neither DCS or CLoD can do that.

However, this comes at a price.  The cost of the software?  The BoX wages bill is around $80k per month and also as a cost in hardware.   Everyone must fly but for BoX everyone must have a quad core. 

Anyone remember the original cost of IL2 Forgotten Battles yet?   

[Crash]

I  think I paid £12. I have spent an awful lot more since

Just seen this, Train Simulator all download content a bargain at over 3000 euros (thats sale price!)

[Jabo]

I paid £25 for 1946 which I felt was hardly a bargain as I already had all the expansions and the original game as well but there was new stuff too so all good in retrospect

 

No idea on the original FB price though I’m afraid.

 

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[CaptJackG]

For me I don't have 1946 installed on my computer.

AP, Perfesser, Spaulding, Gustang, wingflyer, myself and recently added Kira have been playing BOX these last few weeks and have really enjoyed this sim. The graphics are excellent, plane spotting, and damage models look really good. You feel like the 50's in the P-40 are hitting like they should.

I like CLoD but I think BOX is well past CLoD with the future of BOX looking more impressive than CLoD.

For me I really like DCS. The biggest minus for me is the damage model. In order to disable an AI with guns you have to kill the pilot or shoot off a wing. Otherwise they can be pouring black smoke and all shot to pieces and still chase you down. That doesn't happen in BOX, if you get an AI to show black smoke his engine will eventually fail. Fires will cause structural failure and damaged structure under g will fail.

The plus side for me is, after spending 47 years in various cockpits, I like getting in these planes and having to use a checklist, cockpit flows to get everything up and running. To get into a F-5 or Mirage and get all the systems on line, engines running can give you a warm fuzzy. To return to base and have the ability to conduct an instrument approach in a jet flying 170 kts on final, breaking out of the clouds and seeing the runway lights can        really make your day.

I also feel DCS flight modelling seems a little better than BOX, but BOX is close.

There are some planes coming to DCS that I'm looking forward to getting into, the Harrier, Hornet, and Tomcat are all going to be a challenge to learn and try to master along with carrier ops. DCS says they are addressing the damage model and I believe they will at some point.

[Painless]

Interesting reading this thread, for many IL2 is still number one for the time being. CLOD has a fair following also. We accommodate both of these sims with dedicated sessions. DCS is flown on an individual session basis as and when, which seems to work.

BOS/ BOX seems to be the favorite to replace IL2 when we have or want to do so perhaps  at some point in the future we might consider converting Tuesday sessions over to this sim ? This would give those who already have and fly BOS/BOX a squad session and I suspect might encourage some of us (myself included), to upgrade hardware and/or purchase the necessary software for the sake of inclusivity ? This would also provide a transition /familiarisation period for as long as we like.

Opinions ?............

[DD_Fenrir]

It's like you read my mind Mick. My tinfoil hat must be slipping!

[BluBear]

Took the words right out of my mouth.

I've been spending some time watching BoX videos recently and think i'm going to give it a go sooner rather than later. I have a rig that'll run it and there's a sale on.

Last night was disappointingly quiet for CloD with only FT, Dan, Alpha and me... I still managed 15 kills though 

[Crash]

The fall off in the numbers of people who fly is now getting serious. 6 turned up on Tuesday, Thor, Dan, Ovy, Delta, Sid and me. Due to the time zone difference Thor, Dan and Ovy left about 9 ish GMT Delta bailed out soon after as it was so quiet,. Sid and myself gave it another half an hour and called it a night. I had a feeling that the low numbers in the summer wasnt due to holidays and nice weather, so we need to change something or at least plan what we want to do. I know that in the survey people said leave it to the host to call time on coops but I dont want to spoil someones fun if they either want to fly a damaged A/C back to base (which can be satisfying) or they are in a target rich environment. Maybe it might be best if numbers are low if we use a moving dogfight map and set objectives instead of running a coop for less than a certain number of flyers. Any thoughts?

[FoolTrottel]

31 minutes ago, Crash said:

The fall off in the numbers of people who fly is now getting serious. 6 turned up on Tuesday, Thor, Dan, Ovy, Delta, Sid and me. Due to the time zone difference Thor, Dan and Ovy left about 9 ish GMT Delta bailed out soon after as it was so quiet,. Sid and myself gave it another half an hour and called it a night. I had a feeling that the low numbers in the summer wasnt due to holidays and nice weather, so we need to change something or at least plan what we want to do. I know that in the survey people said leave it to the host to call time on coops but I dont want to spoil someones fun if they either want to fly a damaged A/C back to base (which can be satisfying) or they are in a target rich environment. Maybe it might be best if numbers are low if we use a moving dogfight map and set objectives instead of running a coop for less than a certain number of flyers. Any thoughts?

Hm, moving dogfight when numbers are low could just as easy be not very satisfying... rinse & repeat?

I still believe in 'leave it to the host'.

Recently I have not been hosting with low numbers - or not too many times. What I think I would try and do, is to find coops very much suited for low numbers - some specific missions, normally not used because there's too little seats

The only real way of restoring the numbers, is to get new people to join our group. Changing the hosting/missions would involve in a doing a lot of announcing, then make sure you are 100% prepared as to deliver what whas announced, then wait for people to show up and then deliver

It was very visible in that 2014 poll, half of the respondents stated real life being the cause of not flying any more ... 

[DD_Arthur]

6 hours ago, Painless said:

 This would also provide a transition /familiarisation period for as long as we like.

Opinions ?............

I think you've hit the nail on the head here Mick.   The object of the excersize is to explore future options.  It's definitely not going to be at the risk of loosing current members.  We still have plenty of time.

I agree with FT very much too.  The answer to low numbers are new members.  I think BoX is where you'll find 'em.

 

[Snacko]

20 hours ago, CaptJackG said:

For me I don't have 1946 installed on my computer.

AP, Perfesser, Spaulding, Gustang, wingflyer, myself and recently added Kira have been playing BOX these last few weeks and have really enjoyed this sim. The graphics are excellent, plane spotting, and damage models look really good. You feel like the 50's in the P-40 are hitting like they should.

I like CLoD but I think BOX is well past CLoD with the future of BOX looking more impressive than CLoD.

For me I really like DCS. The biggest minus for me is the damage model. In order to disable an AI with guns you have to kill the pilot or shoot off a wing. Otherwise they can be pouring black smoke and all shot to pieces and still chase you down. That doesn't happen in BOX, if you get an AI to show black smoke his engine will eventually fail. Fires will cause structural failure and damaged structure under g will fail.

The plus side for me is, after spending 47 years in various cockpits, I like getting in these planes and having to use a checklist, cockpit flows to get everything up and running. To get into a F-5 or Mirage and get all the systems on line, engines running can give you a warm fuzzy. To return to base and have the ability to conduct an instrument approach in a jet flying 170 kts on final, breaking out of the clouds and seeing the runway lights can        really make your day.

I also feel DCS flight modelling seems a little better than BOX, but BOX is close.

There are some planes coming to DCS that I'm looking forward to getting into, the Harrier, Hornet, and Tomcat are all going to be a challenge to learn and try to master along with carrier ops. DCS says they are addressing the damage model and I believe they will at some point.

When do you guys fly Jack?   Any weekends?  

[WWCraven]

Salute Dogz!

Please forgive me for jumping in on your discussion, reading this gave me a bad case of deja vu. The Wing Walkers have been through this same topic and it wasn't easy.

We ultimately determined that we would focus the squad flying nights solely within the BoX series. Rise of Flight being our secondary sim, with a few members flying Il2-46, Clod, DCS.

We run open COOPS each Tuesday, with mission adapted from various sources in addition to working on using PWCG to create some additional scenarios.  The last few months has seen the numbers of folks flying on our server increase to approx 20 per evening. Half of these are WW members.

During the course of the year running our COOPS, we've had the opportunity to gain 3 new WW's from those who have been joining us in the COOPS. These are the first new members we've had since 2014. We believe that we will have the best chance of gaining additional members through the BoX series.

It wasn't a particularly easy process for us to get where are at present, hard to give up IL2-46, but we are of the opinion that the future of flight sims as it now stands is with the BoX series. I wish you guys all the best in your determinations on how to proceed.

For any of the Dogz who might be interested in trying out our COOP missions, we fly Tuesday nights at 1830 pst.  I realize that a lot of you wouldn't be able to make this time given your locations, so if there is any interest, I can fire up our server any Sunday at the time most convenient for you guys.

Cheers

Craven

[CaptJackG]

5 hours ago, Snacko said:

When do you guys fly Jack?   Any weekends?  

We're on most every evening, you can see us on the DD public TS server.

[APHill]

On 11/15/2017 at 8:35 AM, Snacko said:

I've played a little with mission building in Box. It's confusing. It's based on RoF.  Not nearly as easy as IL2 1946.

And I believe that you have to host on a separate server, so hosting and flying on the same pc may not be possible.. But I think they may be working on changing that, but I'm not sure.

Arthur should be part of this conversation.. He probably knows all the answers..

Sent from my Moto Z Play using Tapatalk
 

Snacko,

Flying and hosting on the same PC is possible. Jack Gus and I do it almost every night of the week. All are welcome to join us.

AP

[Painless]

14 hours ago, WWCraven said:

Salute Dogz!

Please forgive me for jumping in on your discussion, reading this gave me a bad case of deja vu. The Wing Walkers have been through this same topic and it wasn't easy.

We ultimately determined that we would focus the squad flying nights solely within the BoX series. Rise of Flight being our secondary sim, with a few members flying Il2-46, Clod, DCS.

We run open COOPS each Tuesday, with mission adapted from various sources in addition to working on using PWCG to create some additional scenarios.  The last few months has seen the numbers of folks flying on our server increase to approx 20 per evening. Half of these are WW members.

During the course of the year running our COOPS, we've had the opportunity to gain 3 new WW's from those who have been joining us in the COOPS. These are the first new members we've had since 2014. We believe that we will have the best chance of gaining additional members through the BoX series.

It wasn't a particularly easy process for us to get where are at present, hard to give up IL2-46, but we are of the opinion that the future of flight sims as it now stands is with the BoX series. I wish you guys all the best in your determinations on how to proceed.

For any of the Dogz who might be interested in trying out our COOP missions, we fly Tuesday nights at 1830 pst.  I realize that a lot of you wouldn't be able to make this time given your locations, so if there is any interest, I can fire up our server any Sunday at the time most convenient for you guys.

Cheers

Craven

Thanks Craven,  you guys have already been through the same thought process that we are currently wrestling with and had a positive outcome.

Some of us are pretty old dogz and don't like learning new tricks and it sounds like you had similar issues. 

Again, thanks for sharing your squads story, it is both relevant and useful sir.

Painless. 

[Sweper]

41 minutes ago, Painless said:

Thanks Craven,  you guys have already been through the same thought process that we are currently wrestling with and had a positive outcome.

Some of us are pretty old dogz and don't like learning new tricks and it sounds like you had similar issues. 

Again, thanks for sharing your squads story, it is both relevant and useful sir.

Painless. 

Body a bit battle-scarred, but brain still in perfect order

[Snacko]

12 hours ago, CaptJackG said:

We're on most every evening, you can see us on the DD public TS server.

Yea, but probably too late for me.  I go to bed around 9:30 - 10.  Do you guys start earlier?  No weekends?

[Jabo]

So we could BoX on Tuesdays, CloD on Thursdays (v4.5 Beta testing is complete I understand) and '46 on Sundays? Spreads out the week and everyone gets to fly something they like (except the DCS boys but that tends to happen after the scheduled sessions anyway).

[Crash]

Why not have a plan to do that after we see how the coop mode goes. It shouldnt take too much time. Although the coop mode seems to be already working. We need to know more about how to run a session, and plan out how and what we as a squad can offer potential recruits.

Good post from 401 Wolverine on the SOW forum

If nothing else, a working co-op mode would encourage more and more people to get comfortable with the mission editor.

I was building co-op IL-2 missions for far longer than i was making multiplayer and campaign missions/maps. It's the best way to cut your teeth on something like that.

Honestly, I would still be building for and playing Cliffs of Dover RIGHT NOW if it had working AI, working ground units, and working AI skill settings. CO-OP is what allows smaller groups to grow into larger ones. It allows people to play and practice together as a group before taking on the scary MP scene against living opposition. A lot of people just don't want to face another human on the other side because they either feel they're not good enough, or just don't want that level of conflict real or imagined.

I feel the big multiplayer online crowd are the squeakiest wheel most of the time. They have a big presence online by necessity and have pushed hard for their agenda. I truly believe that this is partly why CloD is basically an online only game at this point. Look at what is being added via 4.5 / 5.0. It basically amounts to more toys for multiplayer. There's been lip service to improving the single player side of it, but I haven't seen anything to date that shows it's being improved. I'm sure people will argue that adding a Beaufighter or making explosions brighter, or making flak look better or fixing trees are all things that will improve singleplayer, but honestly it's just more and more lipstick on the pig designed to appease online multiplayer concerns. To me it sometimes feels like they're just making changes to things that they know they can change (did we really need or even want new ground explosions for aircraft??).

I'd say AI aircraft and ground units and ships make up at least a full 3rd of what a game has to offer, probably more. We've been cajoled and pushed to believe that these elements are not necessary anymore (look at all the multiplayer only games out there now), but all that's done is cheapen the experience and make us accept less for more.