Re: @Falconise - Overclocking advice

[T_O_A_D]

Why do I want to oc TOAD?

To get the experience and understand how it all works.

I fully understand, that and why.I'd be getting this experience on another machine other than my Gamer, then transfer my new found knowledge over to it once comfortable. Hoping not to pork it or my ability to play with the boys.

And if it makes il2 look better, why not?

I'd have a hard time believing your doing anything more than just gaining frame rates, at this point. FPS over 24 is enough for the eye and maintain anything above 40 no matter the mission should play and host perfectly.

Not trying to kick ya in the head or nothing, just saying

[Blairgowrie]

Ok, ready to move on to next phase. Screenies attached.

[Blairgowrie]

Can't seem to find anything in bios that permits a voltage change. I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread. What exactly am I looking for?

Oops! I think I have found it. DRAM voltage and above it, an instruction that you have to enter the exact voltage. I entered 1.8v but it will not F10 to save and exit.

[Falconise]

First, before I forget, it is the "DRAM Static Read Control" setting that MUST be disabled as soon as we move the FSB speed above stock 333MHz! While it may not affect you, I think it will as it had severe limitations on two boards I worked with.

Oops! I think I have found it. DRAM voltage and above it, an instruction that you have to enter the exact voltage. I entered 1.8v but it will not F10 to save and exit.

[Falconise]

The P5K worksheet is the closest match to your P5E BIOS. A couple of minor differences is all.

[Blairgowrie]

I was able to set the voltage to 1.8 using the plus and minus keys on the numpad. The left and right arrow keys did not work. Then I disabled DRAM Static Read Control. DRAM Frequency - DDR2 was at 1111MHz and not the 800 you stated.

DRAM Coomand Rate - 2T

DRAM Timing Control - Maunual

4

4

4

12

the rest auto

Saved and tried to run Memtest but got a message Overclocking Failed. I set everything back to default and here I am.

Is next step to increase voltage and is the 1112MHz setting for DRAM Frequency ok or not?

[Blairgowrie]

Reflashed bios to latest version 1201.

[Blairgowrie]

Machine really seems to be much faster after reflashing bios. I wonder what I broke?

[Falconise]

Interesting, I am wondering what setting took the memory off stock speed of 800. No worries.

No, the next step is to manually force the ram to 800. Leave the voltage as is, and increase it only if it still can't do 4-4-4-12 at DDR2-800.

So, in the DRAM Frequency setting, change it to DDR2-800.

Also, I'd like to see/know what options are available in the "FSB Strap to Northbridge Setting" other than Auto.

Next step, if 4-4-4-12 is ok at 1.8volts, is to either see how much tighter you can make the 12 setting go, like 10 and 9.

Or, put it back to 5-5-5-15 and increase the DRAM Frequency to see how fast they will go before adding voltage.

Or, just real quick for fun, set the voltage to 2.1V and frequency way up to 1150MHz (or 1112MHz or whatever is available) and see if they will run at their rated speed, voltage and timings! Then reduce the voltage to see how little they can run at that speed before they start erroring.

Lastly, it's be nice if they ran at rated speed and voltage with tighter timings, so rinse and repeat at 1150MHz gradually to try 4-5-5-15, then 4-5-4-15, then 4-4-4-12.

Either way, you want to try all eventually. It's nice to know when the ram will need more volts, and how fast it can run with given timings, before you start setting the CPU faster which will change the final ram speed as well.

I was able to set the voltage to 1.8 using the plus and minus keys on the numpad. The left and right arrow keys did not work. Then I disabled DRAM Static Read Control. DRAM Frequency - DDR2 was at 1111MHz and not the 800 you stated.

DRAM Coomand Rate - 2T

DRAM Timing Control - Maunual

4

4

4

12

the rest auto

Saved and tried to run Memtest but got a message Overclocking Failed. I set everything back to default and here I am.

Is next step to increase voltage and is the 1112MHz setting for DRAM Frequency ok or not?

[Falconise]

Indeed! Faster is good! Broke is not a problem!

After reflashing, it's a good idea to load system defaults again, and retune it to disable the crap you don't need. Save a new Profile 1 too!

With a new BIOS, everything starts anew. Right back to the beginning. It's basically a new mobo but just the software. It's like getting a new CPU or Ram, everything is completely different now. The good thing is you weren't too far along, it's easy and good practice to catch back up, and this BIOS seems better anyway.

Machine really seems to be much faster after reflashing bios. I wonder what I broke?

[Falconise]

After Playing with RAM

Time to speed up the CPU. Take this in three steps, gradually getting to our goal of 400MHz FSB. First, we'll try 350MHz, then 375, then 400.

First, loading Profile 1 and then disabling all the power savings features as well as Static Read Control. Save and exit, and re-enter the BIOS.

Set the system to Manual Stockspeed, and lets set the ram up to be forgiving so that if you encounter problems it should not be ram related. Set the DRAM Frequency to DDR2-800, timings at 2T, 5-5-5-15-rest auto (except static read control), Vdimm at 1.8V.

Save and exit, booting to memtest and verify that the bandwidth matches the previous test done earlier at this setting -- another good reson to keep records.

Re-enter the BIOS and save to the Profile 2 -- this will be your overclocking start point.

Back in the BIOS, with the Ratio at 9.5x, change the FSB Frequency to 350MHz. This should give you a final speed of 3.325GHz and the ram will be approximately 840MHz. Save and exit, boot to memtest, record the bandwidth and settings on the worksheet, and let her do a full pass and 20 passes test 5. Then to the OS for screenshots and benching.

Rinse and repeat for 375 and 400 FSB.

At 375MHz FSB you should get a final CPU speed of 3.56GHz, with ram at 900MHz.

At 400MHz FSB you should get a final CPU speed of 3.8GHz, with ram at 960MHz.

The ram should still have plenty of headroom, but at this point we may need to increase the Northbridge and/or CPU voltage. I think you will hit 350-375 without adjusting voltage, but 400 may be pushing it. I'll wait and see what happens first, before going there!

[Fireman]

With regards to the memtest......

When it first boots up off the cd, the program automatically starts up (default setting, I guess). It fails/stops within seconds of the first test and the system reboots and starts the whole process over again, and again and again...........

At first I thought I'd installed something wrong or had a bad component somewhere.

[B16Enk]

The only dumb question is the one that wasn't asked.

[Blairgowrie]

@Falconise.

FSB Strap to Northbridge has settings from 1.25 all the way up to 1.75 in .02 increments.

I have saved the default setting as Profile 1. Do you know how many Profiles you can save? Only shows two right now.

Just getting myself organized with recording sheets and making sure I have all the programs downloaded and installed. I might get a chance to do some "playing" later today.

Thanks for all your help m8. This is really fascinating and I honestly don't care if I blow the computer up. Good excuse to upgrade to quad core. "See honey, I need a new computer!"

[Falconise]

No worries, that tells us a lot actually.

What settings you are on when this happens?

/edit: sorry, I need specs too!

Never seen the 2 CPUs (experimental) thing, I may be using an older version of memtest.

Memtest doesn't stop, even when it errors (fails), it continues to test and error until you press escape to reboot. What is happening is the system is rebooting because it is somehow unstable and doesn't like what memtest is making it do.

Can you not get back into BIOS setup? If not, try powering the system down with the rocker switch in the back of the PSU. Leave it for a minute then boot up and see if you can get into the BIOS. If not, then you will have to reset the BIOS using the jumper on the mobo -- let me know if you need help with that.

With regards to the memtest......

When it first boots up off the cd, the program automatically starts up (default setting, I guess). It fails/stops within seconds of the first test and the system reboots and starts the whole process over again, and again and again...........

At first I thought I'd installed something wrong or had a bad component somewhere.

[Falconise]

Ok, will have to figure out what that strap setting does...

There are only two profiles in that board, although you can save them (and the rest of the current bios settings and version) to a USB memory stick, and then reuse the profiles. You can save multiple versions of the settings too, so a 1GB stick would save hundreds if not thousands of settings.

You really have to go crazy with voltages to blow up or damage the system, the risk is small.

Might do a session myself tonight or this weekend. I have a Q6700 I am dying to try in my main system, as well as 4x1GB sticks of Corsair I want to try to get running (Vista running out of ram with 2GB).

@Falconise.

FSB Strap to Northbridge has settings from 1.25 all the way up to 1.75 in .02 increments.

I have saved the default setting as Profile 1. Do you know how many Profiles you can save? Only shows two right now.

Just getting myself organized with recording sheets and making sure I have all the programs downloaded and installed. I might get a chance to do some "playing" later today.

Thanks for all your help m8. This is really fascinating and I honestly don't care if I blow the computer up. Good excuse to upgrade to quad core. "See honey, I need a new computer!"

[Blairgowrie]

Progress Report:

Reset DRAM Frequency to 800

Voltage to 1.8

Ram to 4-4-4-9

DRAM Command Rate to 1T

Memtest liked it BUT

CPU says

[Fireman]

No worries, that tells us a lot actually.

What settings you are on when this happens?

/edit: sorry, I need specs too!

Never seen the 2 CPUs (experimental) thing, I may be using an older version of memtest.

Memtest doesn't stop, even when it errors (fails), it continues to test and error until you press escape to reboot. What is happening is the system is rebooting because it is somehow unstable and doesn't like what memtest is making it do.

Can you not get back into BIOS setup? If not, try powering the system down with the rocker switch in the back of the PSU. Leave it for a minute then boot up and see if you can get into the BIOS. If not, then you will have to reset the BIOS using the jumper on the mobo -- let me know if you need help with that.

With regards to the memtest......

When it first boots up off the cd, the program automatically starts up (default setting, I guess). It fails/stops within seconds of the first test and the system reboots and starts the whole process over again, and again and again...........

At first I thought I'd installed something wrong or had a bad component somewhere.

[Blairgowrie]

I have tried just about everything to get the multiplier back to showing 9.5 but it continues to stick on 6. Pictures of bios attached.

[Falconise]

Yup, that is the power savings feature kicking in, it reduces the multiplier and voltage to save energy when the computer is not working. To see the correct speed, just make the computer do something -- Orthos and Prime95, HiperPi, lots of other things. Usually, this is disabled when overclocking, so won't come into play.

Progress Report:

Reset DRAM Frequency to 800

Voltage to 1.8

Ram to 4-4-4-9

DRAM Command Rate to 1T

Memtest liked it BUT

CPU says

[Falconise]

Posting from my spare system, changed the ram in my main and am about to add two more sticks to it and test. Putting my Ballistix in this system, so will be testing that as well. Need to setup screenshot u/ls and the like on this sys.

Spare Specs:

DFI P35 T2RS

Intel E2180 2GHz 1MB 800fsb --> Intel E6750 2.66GHz 4MB 1333fsb

Zalman 9700 HSF

2GB (2x1024MB) Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500

eVGA 8800GT

PC Power & Cooling 750quad psu

Antec 300

Main Specs:

eVGA 680i SLI

Intel E6750 2.66GHz 2MB 1333fsb --> Q6700 2.66GHz 8MB 1066fsb

Scythe Nija HSF

4GB (4 x 1024MB) Corsair Dominator PC2-8500

eVGA 9800GTX

PC Power & Cooling 750quad psu

Cooler Master HAF932

Spare:

Ram is still the Corsair, set to DDR2-800, notice the lower Everest CacheMem test results.

Main:

Mem is set to DDR2-1066, better results.

[Falconise]

Didn't get far with the 680i and 4x sticks. Had the same problem in the other board with this same ram. Just won't run stable at 1066MHz with all four sticks. So I ran them at DDR2-800 with 4-4-4-12 timings and got numbers pretty close to the 1066 with 2x sticks.

Going to put the quad core Q6700 in this maybe tomorrow.

Main with 4 x 1GB Corsair:

Shot with slot #1, 2, 3, and 4 in use

[Falconise]

The spare DFI is a little more interesting. The E2180 is on a different FSB speed, so even when the ram is at 1066 it doesn't reach the scores from the E6750. So I increased the FSB to 266 x 10 for the same 2.66GHz final speed as the E6750, and the ram at 1066MHz. I then tried 333 x 8, and ran into errors. I had to increase the CPU volts by +.125V and ram to 2.0V in order to settle it down.

/edit: I ran into a reboot or shutdown problem. Turns out the problem was the BIOS setting for auto shutdown temperature. I increased it to 75C from 60C and no more shutdowns.

I then tried boosting the multi up, keeping the FSB at 333, finally reaching 333x10 for 3.3GHz. I had to boost the CPU volts two more ticks to get rid of a test 7 error in memtest, and she's fine in the OS so far.

You'll notice another good boost in bandwidth with the final increase of FSB, particularly the read and write speeds got significant boosts, far more than the 266 x 10 result. More benches will have to be run to verify this I think.

It still can't keep up with the E6750 in the eVGA board.

Spare with Ballistix 2 x 1GB:

Stockspeed 200MHz x 10, and RAM @ 800MHz

Overclock to 2.66GHz: 266MHz x 10, and RAM @ 1066MHz

Overclock to 2.66GHz: 333MHz x 8, and RAM @ 1066MHz

Overclock to 3.0GHz: 333MHz x 9, and RAM @ 1066MHz

Overclock to 3.33GHz: 333MHz x 10, and RAM @ 1066MHz

Stockspeed 200MHz x 10, and RAM @ 800MHz

Overclock to 2.66GHz: 266MHz x 10, and RAM @ 1066MHz

Overclock to 2.66GHz: 333MHz x 8, and RAM @ 1066MHz

Overclock to 3.0GHz: 333MHz x 9, and RAM @ 1066MHz

Overclock to 3.33GHz: 333MHz x 10, and RAM @ 1066MHz

[Falconise]

Testing for Stability in the OS - Prime95, Orthos, and HyperPi

Once we have moved the CPU off stock speed, we need to test it in the OS to be sure it is stable. It's possible to hose the OS with an unstable system.

We do this by stressing the cpu and memory over an extended period of time. There are a ton of apps out there that will do this, but the most commonly accepted are Prime95, Orthos, and HyperPi (or SuperPi). Prime95 stresses the cpu by making it search for prime numbers, maximizing the load on all the CPU cores. Orthos works exactly the same way, even uses the Prime95 code, it's just in a better interface.

HyperPi is a benchmark tool as well as a stress tester, and a very good one at that. It doesn't stress the system as much as Prime, and is therefore more relaxing on how stable a system has to be in order to pass it.

Unlike Memtest, these programs will stop if they encounter an error, and in more extreme cases will lock up, reboot the computer, or BSOD.

P95 and Orthos can also be used to determine if an instability is due to the CPU or Ram. Two settings that I use to do this are Blend (stresses the CPU and Ram) and Small FFT (Stresses only the CPU). If it fails Blend, then I try Small FFTs, if it passes that then it is the Ram, if it fails that then it's the CPU.

How do I know when my system is stable?

Prime Stable: It is generally accepted that if an overcloked system can pass 8 hours of Prime/Orthos, it is considered stable. A stockspeed system must be able to pass 24 hours of Prime/Orthos. A suicide run if when the system is stable enough to get to the desktop and run HyperPi 1M (it's quickest test), take a screenshot and shutdown before something blows up. Personally, I am a hardliner, and like my overclocks to be able to withstand 24 hours Prime, and a month of personal use (or a week in my daughters care). I do not do suicide runs.

3D Stable: Able to complete all the 3D benchmarks and run all your games without problems.

SuperPi 32M Stable: Able to complete the 32M test in HyperPi (calculate Pi to 32 million decimal points).

When stressing the system, I like to have all sensor monitors up, anti-virus, internet, the system as it would be if I were going to use it. I watch temps closely, but otherwise let it cook on it's own, and just make sure it's still cooking occasionally.

Easy to use. Open your Task Manager to the Performance tab, to see the CPU load. Open Orthos, select the Test: Blend, and click Start. Watch the task manager load up. Click Stop after a minute or so.

Here is a screenshot of a run I did earlier with 333x9 settings above:

[Blairgowrie]

I haven't been able to devote a lot of time to overclocking Falconise. What with working outside, now that Spring is here and hosting Coops, it doesn't leave me with a lot of spare time.

But I have been doing a bit when I can and need a little help before I move on. I have been able to run the ram at 4-4-4-9 with no issues. But the command rate still shows 2T on all the reports even although it shows 1T in the Bios. Could you please explain? The following screen shot was taken while I was running Prime 95.