P40 Found In The Sahara

[fruitbat]

And this is actually found.....

wonder what happened to the pilot?

http://translate.goo...age%3D1&act=url

[Jabo]

That looks like a good candidate for restoration

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mosh]

He had to have set that down rather gently for it to be in such good condition, well relative to how it could have been. I guess he had a pretty long walk.

[T_O_A_D]

Nice! I bet it recently exposed itself due to wind shifts or something.

Also bet the pilot never made it home.

It would be an interesting moment finding something like that wouldn't it?

[DD_Brando]

Well you never know Todd - one of the functions of the Long-Range Desert Group was picking up downed pilots. It would depend on whether anyone saw him go down and recorded the position.

[BadAim]

That'd a good thought Brando. I'm kinda fond of you Brits, not to mention warriors in general, I like to think one more made it to old age.

[JensenPark]

I vote we send out Tribunus and claim this as ours!

[Tribunus]

I've just about complete my preparations for beginning the search. I've got my 4x4 stocked with food, water, extra petrol, and camping gear. But before I depart, I will need a little better idea of where to begin my search.

The article said that the plane was found in the Sahara. Technically the Sahara is the desert that is west of Tunisia. What the British called the Western Desert in Egypt is technically the Libyan desert. Unfortunately, many people use the term Sahara to describe the desert that runs from the Nile to the Atlantic.

So lets examine the facts.

We can tell from the picture that it is a Kittyhawk not a Tomahawk, so that places it in 1942 at the earliest. But the British used Kittyhawks all over North Africa, so the location of this aircraft could be anywhere. When we think British Kittyhawks, most of us immediate think of the Desert Air Force and the battles in Egypt and Libya. But there were also RAF fighter squadrons flying Kittyhawks out of Algeria against Axis targets in Tunisia, which would have meant that they were flying over the Sahara.

So we really do not have a lot of information to go on. I do know that the combined size of the Sahara desert and Libyan desert is roughly 2,000 kilometers by 500 kilometers. That is a pretty large area to search.

So it would be extremely helpful if you chaps could narrow the search area down to something a bit more manageable. Something the size of Scotland perhaps.

[Jabo]

From that picture Trib, I can tell that it's daytime and sunny. Hope that helps...

Jabo

[Jediteo]

Video of it posted on the 1c forums

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFe8CsOdoG8&feature=player_embedded#!

[Tribunus]

You can't really see the license plates on the vehciles clearly, but I think that they are Libyan. They are definitely not Egyptian, Algerian or Tunisian.

So if it is Libya, that would make this a Kittyhawk flying with the Desert Air Force out of Egypt. That narrows the search down a great deal. Unfortunately, with the current political instability in Libya, the U.S. Embassy here in Egypt would not take kindly to me driving around the Libyan desert looking for a wrecked Kittyhawk.

Since the Desert Air Force flew Kittyhawks from early 1942, until the Axis surrendered in Tunisia in early 1943, there were many opportunities for a aircraft to go down.

I hope the pilot got home.

[Jediteo]

I hope so too, shame they did not take pictures of the serial number or markings. If they did, it would be very easy to find the pilot and whether he managed to walk home. Although given the unspoiled nature of the find, it being anywhere close to settlements is unlikely. It would appear the pilot left the aircraft after landing.

I do not quite understand why the prophub would be seperated from the rest of the plane though.

[Jediteo]

update, looks like the troglodytes are scavenging it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9LsK74J_W0&feature=player_embedded#!

I get the part of disarming it, but it looks a bit heavy handed.

Way to preserve history chaps.

Seems like it was in Egypt Trib, the video description is "

I found the treasure

) Al Wadi al Jadid Desert / Egypt 2012.03 - JP-Poland - SPITFIRE of the Second World War ( Propably there was battle near Al-Alamajn - 1942 .... Egyptian army took the ammo from a plane"

[DD_Bongodriver]

The prop hub prob got sheared off at the final moments of the crash landing thats why its not too far away, did anyone else notice the gear was also down?....at least the tailwheel was extended.

[Squawk]

Two interesting points to ponder, well three actually.

1. Lack of observable battle damage.

2. Seperation of the prop hub from the engine.

3. Full left rudder in flight as observed by the rudder trim tab.

These lead me to believe that this aircraft could have most likely been brought down by an engine failure in flight.

IIRC Allison engines did have a rep for a higher incidence of failures in comparison to its contemporraries. (desert ops not withstanding)

If the prop were stationary(ish) upon impact the blade would act as a lever to apply force on the propeller hub gearbox and cause it to tear away, most telling is the way the blades are only slightly bent backwards. If under power it would be curled in from the tips.

[BadAim]

Un freaking civilized. These people have not a single shred of respect for history, or probably any thing else for that matter.

[Jediteo]

They likely just saw it as a hunk of metal with a few thousands rounds of ammo in it, with very little respect for the aircraft or its historical significance. A bit like if we should dig up a German u-boat and plunder it for the canned goods. It may be a translation problem, but they refer to it as treasure, not a historical artefact or an archaeological find.

The historian in me cringed slightly at their manhandling of it. If I may use my favourite Indiana Jones quotes, "It belongs in a museum"

But yes BA, quite uncivilised.

[Mosh]

I'm no learned expert in historical aircraft or metal prices. But I'd have to assume it would be worth more as a whole, as the plane, than as a pile of scrap metal.

[Tribunus]

Al Wadi al Jadid is in the far southwest corner of Egypt near the Libyan border. That is a long way from anything related to the war in the Western Desert. I really wonder what the pilot was doing that far south. He is easily 400 km south of the Mediterranean.

There is nothing down there but a couple of oasis occupied by Berbers and Bedouins. They pretty much make their living by smuggling goods in and out of Libya, to include occasional slaves, so that would explain the Libyan license plates.

As far as destroying a historically significant aircraft, Mates that is something that is far beyond their level of reasoning. They will tear the aircraft apart trying to scavenge items that they feel are valuable, like machineguns. The rest will be considered scrap metal.

As far as being uncivilized, you would have to live here for a few years to truly appreciate the gulf that exists between the Western World and the Arab World.

[Jabo]

I guess you're right Trib, the intrinsic value of that aircraft intact pales into insgnificance when you're wondering where the next meal is coming from. It's a huge pity but put that against the wholesale destruction of aircraft after the war, dumped over the side of carriers, pushed into holes in the ground and burnt....I mean carefully buried for excavation later...

Jabo

[BadAim]

I suppose I know better than to expect people to rise above their nature. I hope that the pilot made it to the oasis and found the natives friendly. Bet the poor bugger got lost on a transport flight, that could well be a brand new plane. (I mean, well you know....)

[T_O_A_D]

He must of got lost, and crashed within 200 miles of a place with gas these days.

If he is that far off from known activity this also explains why it has sat there all this time undisturbed.

Well so much for that.

[Tribunus]

the intrinsic value of that aircraft intact pales into insgnificance when you're wondering where the next meal is coming from.

It’s hard for people to imagine the poverty that exists here. The average Egyptian lives on roughly 70 dollars a month. So that much scrap metal was to them a Treasure. Finding it must have seemed like a gift from Allah.

I hope that the pilot made it to the oasis and found the natives friendly.

As for the pilot, the area that he went down in is very remote. The nearest oasis is Mut and that’s about 300 km to the northeast. A fighter pilot is not going to be carrying enough water for that sort of hike.

Hopefully, he wasn’t lost and knew exactly where he as and was able to radio in his location. Or he was with his squadron mates and they reported his position. We will not know until someone gets the tail number and does a little research. And that is if someone gets there soon enough to get the tail number.

[Tonar]

Fahad !!! Where is that damn Sawz All ?? Screw it hook it to the Land Rovers and we will drag it back !!

[BadAim]

Holy crap. What a freaking miserable situation. I only pray that someone with the resources and money (for bribes) get's wind of this before it's entirely destroyed. I guess there is little sense expecting these people to find any value in something that they cant eat or fuck. I guess that's why sheep are so valuable in these parts. I'd gladly pitch in $70 to pay for someone to guard this find for a month until someone can get it the hell out.