Contemplating a New PC

[Falconise]

As usual, great info Falconise. I think the Dogz should put you on a permanent retainer like I am on.

What I might do then is see if I can pick up a Asus Rampage Extreme on ebay or at a low price and use that. Then a little further down the road, when and if prices drop, get a new case and a 11 Extreme board and an i series CPU. That would allow me to keep what I have as a backup machine.

That is sort of what I would do. I don't mind being one step behind the cutting edge, lets you stay in top of the line components at a much lower price, the system is still very powerful, and I can never have enough spare systems. By the time I go into a core i7 system, it'll cost me much less than todays prices.

Intel just released a new stepping for the core i7, and it appears a big improvement on power requirements and overclocking. And considering the Rampage II board is on Rev 2, buying into the core i7 later rather than now, only gets you a better product in the end.

[Falconise]

Awesome!!

WOW,

thanks for the heads up....I've been away all day.

Just got off the phone from them.

[Falconise]

Their service departments is visible from the front desk at the location I pickup from. I've always been impressed at the attention they give to builds. Looking at the part boxes stacked up for the builds, these are not cookie cutter systems, but all quality stuff! Cable management is impressive. One of their employees has been doing DIY videos that are now on a youtube page they have. Unlike other outlets, they do care about what they are shipping people, and are quite knowledgable about anything an enthusiast would care about. Considering they offer an overclocking service where you can order your system pre-overclocked and stress tested with a warranty, I feel they are one of the few Canadian outlets that actually know what they are doing.

Here is their Youtube page:

http://www.youtube.com/user/NCIXcom

This Linus Sebastian is a young strapper, but that's what you want in this business!

fireman, did

[Falconise]

Probably happened automatically when they adjusted the vid card price, since the free shipping offer ended on the mobo. They should fix no problemo.

nope...its coming in pieces, so to speak.

gotta call them back tomorrow however.

[Fireman]

Probably happened automatically when they adjusted the vid card price, since the free shipping offer ended on the mobo. They should fix no problemo.

nope...its coming in pieces, so to speak.

gotta call them back tomorrow however.

[Fireman]

called NICX...they are giving me another refund for the shipping costs...........

[Fireman]

can a vid card using DDR3 technology be used in a mobo which supports DDR2 and has DDR2 memory DIMMs installed?

(I'm assuming yes)

[Tonar]

I hope so

[Fireman]

yep....had to look it up

(fortunately my new board as well as vid card both are pci-e 2.0)

[Falconise]

Yes indeed!

The vid card's ram is completely separate from the system, and data streams go through the PCIe bus to and from system memory to the vid card memory. Once the data is in the vid card, it is manipulated internally with 3d stuff and the vid card processor. The faster vid card ram is able to do this manipulation better, to and from the vid card processor.

The latest high end ATI cards are using DDR5 ram, (dunno what happened to DDR4 it was skipped or something). However, while the DDR5 ram helps the ATI cards, it isn't a significant enough boost to warrant using it in the NV cards yet, which are able to keep up with the ATIs while using DDR3.

can a vid card using DDR3 technology be used in a mobo which supports DDR2 and has DDR2 memory DIMMs installed?

(I'm assuming yes)

[Falconise]

The biggest difference between PCIe 1.0 and PCIe 2.0 is the data bus is wider. That hardly matters if the vid card is far from saturating the bus in PCIe 1.0. Another difference is the power that PCIe 2.0 can supply through the slot is higher, meaning there is less need for the separate power connection to the vid card. I believe also, that power savings states are better supported in PCIe 2.0, meaning that the system can actively lower the power consumption of the card, and/or completely shut it down when not needed (thereby using integrated video, when supported).

PCIe 2.0 won't come into play performance wise, unless running two cards in SLI or Crossfire.

You can run a PCIe 2.0 vid card in a PCIe 1.0 slot, with little or no hit to performance.

You can run a PCIe 1.0 vid card in a PCIe 2.0 slot with no difference at all.

You can run dual PCIe 2.0 cards in PCIe 2.0 slots, but you will have problems running two PCIe 2.0 cards in PCIe 1.0 slots.

[Jabo]

You can run a PCIe 2.0 vid card in a PCIe 1.0 slot, with little or no hit to performance.

Are you sure about this Falconise? - AKAIK my NV card won't run in a PCIe 1.0 slot.

Admittedly I've not tried it, but then again testing anything other than the recommended solution with 180UKPs-worth of hardware is not my idea of a Good Plan.

[Falconise]

Yes, positive. All new PCIe 2.0 vid cards are backward compatible with PCIe 1.0 slots. It was very necessary to do this. It's only when you try to run SLI or Crossfire that you may encounter problems. Performance boost for the higher bandwidth PCIe 2.0 slots is negligable, from what I have seen with benchmarks and reviews.

My 9800GTX runs fine in my eVGA 680i, which is PCIe 1.0.

You can run a PCIe 2.0 vid card in a PCIe 1.0 slot, with little or no hit to performance.

Are you sure about this Falconise? - AKAIK my NV card won't run in a PCIe 1.0 slot.

Admittedly I've not tried it, but then again testing anything other than the recommended solution with 180UKPs-worth of hardware is not my idea of a Good Plan.

[Blairgowrie]

Falconise. When you get a minute could you have a look at this thread please?

http://www.dangerdogz.com/forums/index.php/topic,6998.15.html

BG meant this thread M8:

Overclocking advice

[Falconise]

Can't get there, off limits error.

[Blairgowrie]

Can't get there, off limits error.

[Jabo]

Yes, positive. All new PCIe 2.0 vid cards are backward compatible with PCIe 1.0 slots. It was very necessary to do this. It's only when you try to run SLI or Crossfire that you may encounter problems. Performance boost for the higher bandwidth PCIe 2.0 slots is negligable, from what I have seen with benchmarks and reviews.

My 9800GTX runs fine in my eVGA 680i, which is PCIe 1.0.

Now that's interesting, 'cos we're running cards with the same chipset (Mine's a factory over-clocked BFG unit) but the manual included with the card is very definite about not using the card with PCIe 1.0 and no mention of any sort of caveat re: SLI.

It's not going to cost me much sleep given that my mainboard is running PCIe 2.0 anyway, but thanks for the intel.

~S~ Jabo

[B16Enk]

+1 on the backward compatibility.

I ran by 2.0 card in a 1.0 slot no problem, indeed I didn't notice any difference in performance when putting it in a 2.0 slot board..

[Jabo]

One thing that we don't seem to have touched on much is the subject of cable management and the difference that can make to the internal temps of the hardware - Having had a serious go at this in my new case, I'm finding that both the CPU and GPU temps are significantly lower under load than before - Typically the CPU now runs at a steady 38 deg C as opposed to mid-40s and the GPU is some 10 deg cooler at 45 deg C and this is in a smaller case. Worth spending the time on I think.

~S~ Jabo

[Falconise]

Interesting indeed! I've not yet heard of such a thing, although I suppose it is possible. Perhaps they have done something related to power that requires PCIe 2.0. Regardless, if it requires a PCIe 2.0 slot in single card mode, then SLI or Crossfire problems would not be an issue.

Also, while issues with running two PCIe 2.0 cards in SLI or CF and in PCIe 1.0 slots are known, they are not documented in any product's specs or manuals that I know of. I have only read about the issues from reviews or user experiences.

Now that's interesting, 'cos we're running cards with the same chipset (Mine's a factory over-clocked BFG unit) but the manual included with the card is very definite about not using the card with PCIe 1.0 and no mention of any sort of caveat re: SLI.

It's not going to cost me much sleep given that my mainboard is running PCIe 2.0 anyway, but thanks for the intel.

~S~ Jabo

[Falconise]

For me, the most enjoyable part of assembly is the cable management. I am not as anal about it as others, and often prefer quick access to things rather than making a system look like it doesn't have any cables. In the end, the system looks like it was professionally wired by an electrician specializing in industrial buildings.

Temperatures are surely affected, most noticable when rewiring a system that was produced by a mom and pop store, or large vendor like Compaq, HP or Dell. Back in the old days, airflow was not an issue, and most systems had no fans other than the PSU and CPU. The cables were invariably a rats nest that was hit by a tornado! No wonder most people feared upgrading their system or the DIY build, because how could one know what is connected to what, when you cannot even see the CPU below the mess of wires.

Things are much better these days, where systems from Dell and the like have much more thought put into the cables. While they still leave stuff accessable, the cases come with fans and airflow is present, and the systems are still usually very very quiet. Cases are made with much thought to cable management, with holes and slots made for routing wire, lots of premounted fans, and unrestricted intake and exhaust venting.

There are two schools of thought on a system these days. Both have enthusiast level of following. One is the optimal cooling and performance, the other is the completely silent PC with optimal power savings. Both schools are very interesting, and a joy to look at what people have done. There is also a miriad of inbetween! Great stuff!

There is also Old School and Contemporary. Old School would be an older system with ribbon IDE cables etc, Contemporary would be using the current state of technology. You can see how things were when this was just starting, like rounded cables or ribbon cables carefully folded so they do not restrict airflow. I've always believed the saying that for one to learn the future, one only need study the past.

I'll try to find some time to sift through my pictures and post some examples of my work. I've also run into some great examples of others work that I can maybe link to.

One thing that we don't seem to have touched on much is the subject of cable management and the difference that can make to the internal temps of the hardware - Having had a serious go at this in my new case, I'm finding that both the CPU and GPU temps are significantly lower under load than before - Typically the CPU now runs at a steady 38 deg C as opposed to mid-40s and the GPU is some 10 deg cooler at 45 deg C and this is in a smaller case. Worth spending the time on I think.

~S~ Jabo

[Falconise]

OMW there now!

Can't get there, off limits error.

[Fireman]

I'm at work and just got a call from my wife.

Looks like my parts showed up...BUT no case.

[Tonar]

I'm excited for you as well.

I was pleased at the ease of it

[Zooly]

For anti virus AVG 8 is free and really quite good, I also have spybot search and destroy running too (also free).

For I am the ultimate