SAS...Partisans...question

[JensenPark]

Reading a book on the SAS right now...and it talks how they pioneered behind the lines attacks.

Of course the Soviets did well with their partisans as well...

but you never hear about German partisan activity or such actions.

Did they just not exist?

[BadAim]

Funny that. From what I've read, by the time Germany itself was invaded, the Germans had largely had enough of the war (and I believe that they also largely realized that they were on the wrong side by then too).

The Germans did use locals for anti partisan work, with results that caused veteran Waffen SS officers to cringe. It's a difficult and sensitive subject to this day.

[gec]

i think that JP has mixed two different things. SAS, are special forces. Partisans are regular army that is not equipped enough for direct war and fights in certain way (ambushes, diversions and other indirect way of fighting).

german's did have special forces. do not recall exact name but was something mountain paratroopers with some mountain flower as a trademark.

[Tribunus]

~S~ Gec

Your thinking of Gebirgsjäger Mate.

Gebirgsjägers (Mountain Hunters) with their Edelweiss flower insignia were definitely highly trained Elite soldiers, but they were considered to be Regular troops with very specialized skills, not Special Forces.

I believe that the nearest thing the Germans had to Special Forces was the SS-Jäger Battalion 502, commanded by Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny.

Skorzeny and his men were responsible for a variety of German Special Operations missions.

[gec]

your history knowledge is impressive m8

[JensenPark]

not confusing things Gec:

the partisans weren't just rabble who happened spontaneosly to attack...they were well supplied (some soviet partisan groups actually operated tanks), received orders from the 'home office' etc.

what I'm trying to get at (probably not well explained) was the Germans - who really who masters of warfare - did not seem to have the same extensive behind-the-lines outfits attacking.

Skorzeny's stuff was pretty tame and limited in comparison.

[gec]

hmm... i guess u forgot that i'm from Croatia (ex Yugoslavia) who practically invented Partisan-ism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partisan_%28military%29

even a great soviet army in WWII was Partisans only in the begining. later they grow in to a real army but kept the name. same thing happened in ex Yugoslavia

now is that enough or you want more

[gec]

now i need to correct my self. it seems that American definition of partisan and European definition of partisan are not the same:

In essence, 19th century American partisans were closer to Commando or Ranger forces raised during World War II than the "partisan" forces operating in occupied Europe. Such fighter would have been legally considered uniformed members of their country's armed forces.

[Jediteo]

Partisans are more or less classed as miltias or insurgents.

There is a big difference between civilians acting as combatants and militaries using non-standard tactics.

[JensenPark]

ok, what we have here is a failure to communicate.

What I'm trying to get across here guys:

The Germans, who despite idiots like Goering, were the masters of warfare.

[Jediteo]

Germany crumbled pretty quickly after allied forces enterning Germany itself, remember, partisans rarely did anything against units on the frontline, but hitting logistics and garrisons. Germany did press some units such as the hitler jugend and volksturm units into service defending Berlin. The Germans did not do a lot of special ops, but as Tribunus mentioned, Germans dressed as allies causing confusion, such as moving around signs and such.

[Perfesser]

The Germans did try to land spies in Britain but I think they were all captured and most turned.

And I think they did manage to land saboteurs in America but they were picked up quickly after a couple of bombs in a shipyard (I think).

I think the closest they got to an insurgency was Ireland, or was that WW1? The shipload of guns intercepted?

The thing you must have is overwhelming support of local people, the Nazi's master race theory didn't go very far in getting support of the "inferior" local populace.

[Ovy]

Coming from the Balkans - like Gec- we have learned quite a lot on the partisan fights in wwII. Part of it was of course propaganda but definetly in the case of (ex) yugoslavians and (ex) soviets their actions really caused major disruptions of the axis plans. So did - at a smaller scale if i may use the comparative - the greeks . Now , coming o the issue of why the germans "masters of the war" did not have SAS-like actions behind the lines , i have a personal point by saying that it was practically impossible to achieve such thing since they were an Occupying Force , trying to invade a Foreign teritory, speaking a Different language , and most of all - having no support from the local indigen population. Without a hide-out - there's no Partisan - check the forest / villages where known partisan troups been confirmed.

And may i also say , having partisans against SS or Wehrmacht INSIDE Germany sounds like ...hm ...having partisans against Stalin or the Soviets at that same time in USSR.

Hope there will never be the case for similar activities...

[gec]

Now , coming o the issue of why the germans "masters of the war" did not have SAS-like actions behind the lines , i have a personal point by saying that it was practically impossible to achieve such thing since they were an Occupying Force , trying to invade a Foreign teritory, speaking a Different language , and most of all - having no support from the local indigen population. Without a hide-out - there's no Partisan - check the forest / villages where known partisan troups been confirmed.

And may i also say , having partisans against SS or Wehrmacht INSIDE Germany sounds like ...hm ...having partisans against Stalin or the Soviets at that same time in USSR.

Hope there will never be the case for similar activities...

exactly. plus the fact that germans just thinked too much of them selves to fight a war in a Partisan manner.

[Tribunus]

i have a personal point by saying that it was practically impossible to achieve such thing since they were an Occupying Force , trying to invade a Foreign teritory, speaking a Different language , and most of all - having no support from the local indigen population. Without a hide-out - there's no Partisan - check the forest / villages where known partisan troups been confirmed.

When German troops first enter the Ukraine and Belarus, they were treated as liberators, who had arrived to rescue the people of these countries from the terror of Stalin’s Russia.

[Ovy]

In the case of ex USSR to some extent i agree with Tribunus - some of the people, mainly in the western part of USSR, regarded the Wehrmach as "liberators" . Also in ex-Yugoslavia was the case of Chetniks. This tendency comes from the fact that they were hoping to get back some privileges (land/ranks etc) or gain new ones over rival(s) or minorities. The fact that - in the Ubermensch philosophy/propaganda - they were looked upon as subhumans and treated accordingly was a huge mistake. The perception of the term "partisan" is still a bit different in Europe towards US - most of the partisan groups acted individually without being coordinated - some like outlaws . Later in the course of war they received indeed support in ammo and even expertise - like british did for the Tito's partisans and for France "Maquisards" . But if captured no Geneva Convention was mentioned - since they were not enlisted - only the firing squad. Hope i'm not being annoying...

[DD_asas]

I don't mean to interfere, but there were a German special force called "Brandenburge Kommando", who operate fru out the war in various places.

if u gents r interested here's a link in English :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburgers#Brandenburg_Division_-_the_Balkans

cheers