Hell-Divers! Addenda - B5N2 Takeoff Trouble

[DoubleTap]

I am going to be placing addenda material here for the upcoming Hell-Divers! event. Look back here for updates coming soon. For now, I just have one issue.

Some of the blue players brought it to my attention that taking off in the B5N2 was real problematic if not impossible in a standard set-up. The only solution they found was turning around and actually moving back further to the end of the carrier to take off. This is not really a decent solution because of the time and complexity involved in doing this.

Now, I know for a fact that as difficult as it is, you can take off in the B5 as long as you take 50% FUEL max and rev everything up. I have posted a track ("B5N2takeoff") on our board to show just such a takeoff from the IJN training mission. It CAN be done, but it takes practice and a little finesse. Also, I thought that by having other plane types spawn ahead of the B5's, it would push them back far enough on the carriers to give them the same space they would have after "backing up".

I would ask blue to study the track and practice a bit more and try the ordered spawn idea to see if it helps. Perhaps you guys can get together and test it out.

Having said all that, if by this weekend the majority of blue feel still feel that the B5 takeoff is just too difficult (and it is BY FAR the most difficult takeoff of the entire mission, I hear ya) then I have a couple of possible workarounds that, while not ideal, might help. I would prefer to not have to use them, but please understand that if blue really feels this will be a major hinderance, I understand and I will make the changes gladly. I want the B5 to be usable for the campaign for both fun and play-balance.

Let me know by friday or saturday what the verdict is and we'll go forward from there. Thanks, Gents!

[JensenPark]

can't make it an airstart for just that?

[B16Enk]

Track is Here.

Tip:

If you right click a file a query the properties you will see it's URL or address, this can be high lighted using the cursor and copied .

I just love those {}'s....

You can also substitute the ftp:// bit for http:// so it can be used to post images in posts etc.

[DoubleTap]

can't make it an airstart for just that?

That's one of the possible solutions. Problem with that, aside from immersion and esthetics (indulge me), is that it creates a bit of an advantage then. It allows quicker and easier strike launching for the Blue force, and when you add the fact that air spawns start at 2000m, it makes it a little unbalanced.

I made the airstarts fair for the A6M-N seaplane by pushing the spawn point nearly 10km back from the fleet (meaning the seaplane would need to exchange alt for speed), and the PBN airstart seemed fair because its a damn pig anyway (also, the sea level spawn point was a bit awkward for takeoff).

Anyway, it is an option, but there are a couple of others as well.

[Tonar]

I agree, We shouldn't have air starts.

My warriors will defeat the allied scum either way !!!

But it is difficult to take off and next to impossible to land in one piece, so we get on shot and them they are gone.

If thems the breaks for being part of the superior race, then so be it!! Our scientist have been working on a very small electronic device to help us in the forcomming battle.

I personally can not take off from the spawn point(0-18) but do very well when I go to the back of the ship. (19-1).

TONAR-SAN :angry4:

[DoubleTap]

I agree, We shouldn't have air starts.

My warriors will defeat the allied scum either way !!!

But it is difficult to take off and next to impossible to land in one piece, so we get on shot and them they are gone.

If thems the breaks for being part of the superior race, then so be it!! Our scientist have been working on a very small electronic device to help us in the forcomming battle.

I personally can not take off from the spawn point(0-18) but do very well when I go to the back of the ship. (19-1).

TONAR-SAN :angry4:

Focus! FOCUS POWER!!!

[Friar]

I have to concur that it is do-able from the default spawn point on the carrier. After much practice I can now get off more times than not. Landing...thats another issue.

I hav'nt checked what glen said but i have found that i it works when i hold her on the brakes and remove chocks before starting up. If glen said that in his advice, then sorry Glen :oops:

[delta7]

dont need to worry about landing mate- your carrier wont be there long enough for you to get back and land on it :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :wink:

[DoubleTap]

dont need to worry about landing mate- your carrier wont be there long enough for you to get back and land on it :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :wink:

My how I love trash-talking...

[DoubleTap]

I have to concur that it is do-able from the default spawn point on the carrier. After much practice I can now get off more times than not. Landing...thats another issue.

I hav'nt checked what glen said but i have found that i it works when i hold her on the brakes and remove chocks before starting up. If glen said that in his advice, then sorry Glen :oops:

Frior, et-al,

That is a technique I did not think of, nor try, but I will give it a shot. Thanks for the tip.

What I found worked was 50% fuel, Max Rev and Mix, very precise rudder control (no fish-tailing!) and flaps deployed to take-off only as you leave the deck, pull up gently, gear up, deploy landing flaps and use rudder to level out.

Now, this is NOT easy, which is why I advised practice. Even still, if the game allowed wind control (or moving DF carriers) this would not be an issue. It should not be this hard. In real life they would have wind and carrier velocity to make this almost easy. Again, with weather set to Stormy, taking off is a snap.

Also keep in mind that the B5N2 carries bombs. I think it is easier to take off with them so that is always an option for using that plane.

In any event, I stand by my original offer. I have a couple of ways to try and fudge this if necessary. Blue players let me know how you are doing with this and I make the changes if necessary. It will not include airstarts (I think I was wrong, btw, I think airstarts may start out at 1000km).

As far as landing, it took me a couple of trys, but I was able to do so without banging up the plane. Make sure you put your arrestor hook down and take it slow. When you get on the deck, pull back to force your tail down to catch the cable. You might want to consider landing the B5's on the "American carrier", as it appears to have more arrestor cables. Be ready to gun your engine and take off again if you make a bad approach. Better to go around again than land in the drink.

Oh, and at least with landing, the Japanese and American torp planes are in the same boat. It will be equally difficult at least and if there is any disparity, I think the TBF-1's are a little harder to land. Perhaps that will balance out with the difficult B5 launches.

[Shadow]

Not sure if this will help anyone, but it's a little bug that pops up on some carriers.

Often planes will spawn about a foot (30cm) above the deck. Thus when you've run up the engine and release the chocks, you will immediately drop and bounce. This is not the best beginning to a difficult take off.

So, now I always release and rechock before starting the engine.

Another little bug that only pops up occasionaly is the tailwheel will be crooked upon spawning. If you lock it in that position it can be a somewhat frustrating take off. I usually take off with no tail wheel lock, but you could just as easily unchock, give a burst of power to straighten the tail wheel, then lock and chock.

Happy hunting,

[guitarman68]

Your better off packing a scuba outfit, cause your going to need one to find your carriers. :shock:

[DoubleTap]

Folks,

Couple of updates/changes to note for the upcoming Hell-Divers! event.

One, I decided to add a invisible runway in front of the "American" carrier on the Japanese side to assist in launching the B5N2. Looking at it, the ability to launch the thing is a little too close to the envelope compared to all of the other planes in the set. Taking off should not be, and was not historically, as difficult as the current set-up makes it. Also, because the B5N2 is such a large proportion of the Japanese plane-sets, losses of them on take-off are particularly damaging.

I will release a track of how this works, but for now, here is the general idea:

1) Takeoff as per previous instructions EXCEPT do NOT RETRACT your wheels.

2) Keep the plane going as straight and level as possible.

3) The plane will drop, obviously, but you want to make the drop as slow as possible, making sure only the wheels touch the "ocean".

4) Before it actually touches water, it will hit the runway. The plane will immediately bounce up back into the air.

5) When it does, retract the wheels and level out. By this time, the speed you have accumulated and the "bounce" should be enough to keep you going and in the air.

6) Do NOT expect to run along the ocean like a runway, because it ain't that long.

7) Do not use the same runway for landing for the same reason as #6. Plus, you remember I said it was invisible, right?

Two, last week, while working on the missions, I had a "DOH!" moment. Basically what I realized was that because we are using a DF set-up, it was impossible to hide where each other's carriers are as you see all spawn points on the starting map for each mission. I toyed with the idea of creating 'false' spawn points to create at least some confusion, but that won't really work because each side can see in what square the other pilots are loading up.

Like I said, "DOH!"

Anyway, it does not prevent the running of the campaign, and of it playing it out well, but the element of having to locate the enemy carriers is not available. It will, however, make the possibility of an early whacking of a carrier in the first mission more of possibility, so its a decent trade-off.

Se le Guerre'!

I may post more addenda during the week.

[DAZZA]

nice idea with the invisible runway Glenn

[JerseyDevil]

Good show M8. There are some real talented folks around here, I'll have to sharpen up if I want to run this pack. :wink:

[Friar]

I'll have to sharpen up if I want to run this pack

One would hope that we are just missing a little "with" in this post. I will not have any fighting in my Parish, unless its between sister mary and sister helen, with a lot of mud and water involved !

[Blairgowrie]

Doubletap sir,

Are you sending out a new training mission with the invisble runway?

[DoubleTap]

Doubletap sir,

Are you sending out a new training mission with the invisble runway?

Ah, HAH! Funny you should ask...

I have uploaded an updated IJN Training mission to our vault. The training mission now has ancient Japanese secret for launching heavy planes with no wind from Large carrier. You must be in the air before you get to the sub or you are in trouble! Mission name is:

midway_TrainingIJN_rev

I also uploaded a track (B5N2_wBoost.ntrk) of me taking off using this procedure. Take note that A) this was with 75% fuel, I used the little release chocks/hold with brakes trick of Shadow's, and C) even though I was spastic leaving the deck, I was still able to salvage the take-off.

If the track laods up funny (nothing but sky) trying hitting F2. Any questions let me know I will check back in....

[b16enk_test]

Ah, HAH! Funny you should ask...

I have uploaded an updated IJN Training mission to our vault. The training mission now has ancient Japanese secret for launching heavy planes with no wind from Large carrier. You must be in the air before you get to the sub or you are in trouble! Mission name is:

midway_TrainingIJN_rev

I also uploaded a track (B5N2_wBoost.ntrk) of me taking off using this procedure. Take note that A) this was with 75% fuel, I used the little release chocks/hold with brakes trick of Shadow's, and C) even though I was spastic leaving the deck, I was still able to salvage the take-off.

If the track laods up funny (nothing but sky) trying hitting F2. Any questions let me know I will check back in....

Files are now in the download manager, and linkable by right clicking the file name and 'copy link location'

midway_TrainingIJN_rev

B5N2 Boost track

I will be importing all our files across into this, leaving the originals in place (we have the space ) so links in previous posts don't break.

[Shadow]

I found a track that illustrates how high above the deck you spawn in some planes.

If anyone wants a look, it's in the tracks section under 'Unusual Carrier Ops'. After start up I release and rechock. Note how much the plane drops.

As for unusual...well, you'll see :wink:

[DoubleTap]

A couple more bits of info for Hell-Divers!:

For both sides:

Use of the "

With the chat line, remember you can (and will NEED to) click on it while in Chat mode to scroll through all the info. For instance, the plane reserves info will need several clicks to see all of it, particularly for the Americans.

For the Japanese:

In Mission One, remember you need to hit BOTH islands to take out Midway. The heavier damage needs to be done to Eastern Island, which contains the airfield (36-40 units, structures, planes, ships destroyed). Sand Island will require around 25-27 units destroyed.

Also remember; if the Japanese manage to take out a carrier in Mission One, the server will acknowledge and announce you have achieved an objective. However, you need to make sure I know it was a carrier hit as that particular scenario of Mission Two needs to be loaded manually. All other scenarios will load automatically.

For the Americans

I ran into one issue with the PBY spawn. For the time being, the PBY may have to have a ground, or ocean, start. Should this be the case, use the left engine only to turn the plane sufficiently away from the sand bar. Rudder alone will not do it. If you hit the end of the sand bar, don't worry. Deploy both engines, max thrust and you should be able to make your way over it.

Remember that destruction of your stationary aircraft on the ground at Midway impacts your plane reserves.

Check back for possibly more info later...

[guitarman68]

The b-17 is great, managed to sink a carrier and land it back on midway on 2 engines :arrow: i have put the track in the resources bit on the web site.