Enforcer57 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Well, regardless of whether it is compatible to the Geneva deal, the effectiveness of the M-16 series would be greatly improved by using soft points. And any country using the AKS-74 has the equivelant of soft point ammo, and there have been no complaints from Geneva as far as I know. I've seen some M-14s in use in Iraq, so maybe dig some of those out. Since the ammo legality is based mostly on looks it seems (like those idiotic "assault weapons" laws), we could do what the Ruskies do, and make a hollow area behind the tip on the current 63gr ammo. That was brilliant on their part. I am sure that alot of guys have some of those topping off thier mags, especially the special forces types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribunus Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 Is it incorrect to think that any wound other than a graze would incapacitate an opponent to the point they could no longer stay in the fight? All I can tell you is that every situation is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribunus Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 The Geneva Convention is mostly about the treatment of Prisoners of War and Civilians unfortunate enough to be caught in a war zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold_Gambler Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Thank you to BadAim, Jediteo and Tribunus for your replies... as I said, interesting thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jediteo Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Interesting how the thread went from civilian gun control to how best to shorten the lifespan of some less than amiable types. That why I love this forum, everyone is civilised enough to prevent a flamewar. S! Dogz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattler Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 I will ask a buddy of mine in JTF2, if he will/can tell me! Your buddy will know, but I'll be surprised if he will answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadAim Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 LOL, you can always count on GI's to entertain themselves during lulls in the action. No bad guys? No problem, we'll just shoot each other! I still get a kick out of the Hollywood stuff, even though I know a lot of it is not only unrealistic but defiant of the laws of physics. Double LOL, .45cal Death Ray. You know a guy is full of shit when he proudly declares the his .45 will " knock a man off his feet with one shot every time" As I've said before, one of the big reasons I carry a .45 is the other guy's perception of it's power. If that big ole hole in the business end changes an evildoers mind before I have to perforate him, then it's win-win. I consider no shots fired, no casualties the best outcome of any armed confrontation I might get into. If on the other hand he feels the need to get perforated, then I want the biggest perforation possible! Of course, the fact that my man Chuck Taylor recommends it helps too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer57 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 "you shot me you xxxxx!" is so classic. The Geneva Convention is mostly about the treatment of Prisoners of War and Civilians unfortunate enough to be caught in a war zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattler Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 That's why I put hand-loaded 185 JHPs in my .45s after that, then later Glasier "safety slugs", but still........ Ah, Glasiers. A cop friend of mine showed me one once. Begins to expand if it hits a piece of paper for Pete's sake! Guaranteed (as close as you can get with ammunition, anyways) to not go through a bad guy into any innocent bystanders or hostages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribunus Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 I still get a kick out of the Hollywood stuff, even though I know a lot of it is not only unrealistic but defiant of the laws of physics. It goes beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer57 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Yeah, Hollywood is pathetic gun wise. Exceptions are movies produced by John Milius, or projects involving Tom Selleck. Those guys make sure the gun work is pretty accurate. The old TV show MIami Vice was pretty good to. The WW2 epics involving Tom Hanks are also very accurate. Ever notice how the slides lock back when most guys on shows and movies fire a few rds? That's because they are scripted to shoot just a few rds, and that's all the prop guys put in them, so they are empty and lock back. You would think that prop people and producers would realize that, but they haven't, with some exceptions like the aforementioned ones. Sending 4 white guys in Suburbans into that scenario is so typically stupid. I think that kinda thinking didnt help in the Blackhawk down scenario, and it gives Tom Clancy material for some great books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadAim Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 It's funny that Chuck Taylor now carries a 9MM Glock. I guess he figures now that it's the gun you have on you and the one that fires every time you pull the trigger that is the "best defensive caliber". There is something to be said for that. There is of course no substitute for good training and regular practice when the shit hits the fan and your scared witless and shitless and you are the only one who can fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streak Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Russian army AKS-74 rifles in 5.45mm use bullets that APPEAR to be FMJ with no exposed lead, but actually have a hollow space behind the point that collapses and expands like a soft point. This is why the Afghans called it "the bullet that always kills". They still issue those and don't give a damn what the Geneva convention and the US media says. The 5.45 doesn't mushroom like a soft point. I've done some playing around with the 5.45X39.5 round. My AR-15 is chambered for it instead of 5.56 and the ammo I've been feeding it is the Bulgarian stuff that was used extensively against the Afghans. The Afghans also referred to it as the poison bullet (they actually accused them of using poisoned bullets) because the nasty wounds it created almost always got massively infected. The bullets consist of a copper washed mild steel jacket with 5mm of air space at the tip, followed by a 2mm lead plug. then a steel core takes up the rest of the interior space to the base of the bullet. The void in the tip cavitates, causing the tip to bend over a bit when it strikes a "moist" target (water jugs, mud, flesh, ext.). This throws the bullet into a rapid spin. Generally about two complete revolutions in 8 or 9 inches. I just bought another 1080 round can of Ukrainian 5.45 ammo. Can't wait to finish off the Bulgarian stuff so I try the new stuff out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribunus Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 It's funny that Chuck Taylor now carries a 9MM Glock. Does he now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadAim Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I guess after engaging in a campaign to destroy a model 17 and being unsuccessful (170,000 rounds last time I heard) he decided it was OK. I may also be assuming to much a well, but the Glock is the official gun of ASAA now. I'm going to a refresher course soon, I'll ask the instructor, he's in contact with Taylor regularly. I wish I still had my Glock, but my bad wrist would still keep me from shooting the thing, damn shame, it's the perfect weapon for a lazy bastard like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer57 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Taylor carries a 9 now?!?! (Faints dead away.....thud). Greenstreaks, thanx for the info on the 5.45. I would send that to the pentagon, but Gates would ignore it, being the moron he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streak Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Taylor carries a 9 now?!?! (Faints dead away.....thud). Greenstreaks, thanx for the info on the 5.45. I would send that to the pentagon, but Gates would ignore it, being the moron he is. No doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erco Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Arc Light?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribunus Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 How was the accuracy? My Air Force Brothers could generally hit the jungle without too much trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribunus Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 170,000 rounds Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer57 Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I believe B-52s were most effective in the LInebacker ops of 72, where large numbers were released (finally) on North Vietnamese targets for the first time. This is probably the main reason the N. Viets were on their knees in Jan 73 and agreed to quit.....at least until the US govt changed hands and they were allowed to roll into Saigon in 75. Former POWs (the few they released at least) saw thier guards literally piss their pants trembling as the ground rumbled in Hanoi. Woops. I think Im helping to get this thread a bit of topic here. Ill go back into my cave now. And Tribunus, Taylor probably was sponsored by a publication or company. He has been one of the combat weapons gurus since I was in high school, and I am 52 now. It was mainly how he made his living. He was second only to the 45 God Jeff Cooper. Both these guys had seen a good bit of combat. Yeah, I had three Glocks at one time of different models. Best handguns I had. Damn things would feed any design bullet, even lead semi wad cutters. BTW trib, try holding your BRowning on its side while you fire it and see it it deos what they used to do. You may have a newer one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribunus Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 trib, try holding your BRowning on its side while you fire it and see it it deos what they used to do. You may have a newer one. Mine was new in 1970, but it still works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer57 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Ok, Mine was made in 69, modified a bit with throating etc for feeding JHPs. Now this actually happened; in 85 I was teaching my hot new gf to shoot (I met her on the range and was instructing her out of the goodness of my heart). She did ok with the Makarov adn Ruger 22 auto, but when she fired the P-35, the thing stove-piped, and this was with FMJ hardball. I cleared it, and it did it two more times with her. Freaked me out. I ripped a full magazine rapid fire with no problems. Fresh mag, handed it to her (and had showed her how to hold it) and it happened again. I rarely had to ask advice on such things, but the County PD SWAT commander knew exactly what it was. (He was a few lanes down). I had never heard of such a thing, and ALL my friends and most of the county cops carried Brownings back then. He held it on its side and it jammed, stove-piping like before. I did the same thing several times, including with JHPs I usually carried. The apparent reason it was happening while SHE held it was because she wasnt holding firmly enough and it was recoiling too much. It was loose enough in her hands that it had the effect of being on its side. I was mystified. I asked George (The SWAT commander) WTF? He had no idea, but he had seen it happen before with a female officer rookie and with his own during a SWAT excercise. I have no idea if it always happens or just with a few out a a particular batch, or because of the throating or other slight mods (which made it extremely reliable whith JHPs and flat nose Glasiers), or what. You might wanna give that a try on the range (or sand-dune etc) sometime just to see. All us gun guys usually don't have this happen because we know how to shoot them and never have reason to shoot on thier side. May not do it, but I thought it was a good idea to inform you of my experience. I dunno. This had nothing to do with why I carried a Glock later on, nor did it affect my trust in it. I just kept it in the back of my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadAim Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I've heard of guns stove pipeing when limp wristed, I've had it happen to me when my carpel tunnel was acting up. One thing to note, was your GF cross dominant? She may have been tilting the gun to get the sights over to the other eye and inducing a malfunction that you weren't getting for that reason. She also might not have been getting a good grip on the Hi-power because of her smaller hands (you know what they say about hand size and penis size......) as well while your HUGE hands had no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadAim Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I don't think that I've ever fired it sideways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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