Contemplating a New PC

[Falconise]

It's a slow AMD system, with slow ram and no dual channel, a very cheap older chipset mobo and cheap PSU and very cheap case. About the only thing good about it is the HD and even that is old tech.

I would safely say that the Intel E5200 will blow the doors off the AMD X2-7550 and is cheaper to boot!

.

[Falconise]

Check out this eBay store for NCIX, they ship to US, and use US prices in the bids:

http://stores.ebay.ca/NCIX-com-Outlet-Store

Just saw this very nice mobo sell for $42, a huge deal. I actually have this board in my spare system with an E2150 in it, overclocks to 3.2GHz without breaking a sweat. I think I paid like $60 or $80 for mine (CND incl shipping).

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400043511938&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:CA:1123

Same board, newer chipset and better cooling, sold for $67:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400043512141&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:CA:1123

These are Open Box items, but fear not, they are usually in pristine condition. I think very often they are returned because the purchaser bought the wrong board for the CPU he had or something like that. I have bought many boards off this store, and the few times I have had a problem I have either ended up with a brand new replacement board, or my money back.

The prudent bidder will watch this site for a while, and see what a good price is for a given board. That way you will know what your max bid should be. Also, most winners post their bid within 10 seconds of the auction ending., often getting super deals.

I only buy mobos, cpus and ram off here, HDs are a bad idea I think and all the other junk is usually over priced.

Here's some upcoming to watch for:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ASUS-P5K-EPU-ATX-LGA775-P35-DDR2-Epu-CrossFire-30025T_W0QQitemZ310135965524QQihZ021QQcategoryZ108978QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Abit-IP35-E-ATX-LGA775-P35-DDR2-Sound-SATA2-24631T_W0QQitemZ400043701214QQihZ027QQcategoryZ108978QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Gigabyte-EP43-DS3R-ATX-LGA775-P43-RAID-HD-Sound-30496T_W0QQitemZ400043701811QQihZ027QQcategoryZ108978QQcmdZViewItem

The last one is listed as a P43 chipset yet the picture shows a P45. The P45-DS3R is an extremely popular board, great retail price and performance. I think the P43 is a typo.

The Abit has some issues, mostly to do with the position and combination of the expansion slots (which wouldn't matter to most here). It was a solid board though. Unfortunately, I think Abit has gone out of business.

The only thing about the Asus P5K is it is an older P35 chipset and not the P45 (P5Q moniker). Hence, it may have problems with the newer 9xxx quad core cpus -- need to check on that.

.

[Blairgowrie]

Very good advice Falconise.

[Fireman]

when looking at the Asus P5Q mobo (which variant....looking at a barebones sytem, but still have everything I'd need to game)

[Tonar]

Thanks for the input guy2,

I upgraded the PSU to a 550, added ATX HD4850, and duel channel memory. I know this is not the top end of stuff &

[Fireman]

with regards to these two mobo:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=31839

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=30418

they are both P5QL Asus boards.

[Fireman]

OK, this is what I've been looking at so far.......

(I've decided to make this a purchase for me...daughter gets my leftover...lol)

Case:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26048&promoid=1060

PSU:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26884&promoid=1060

MOBO:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=30418

[Perfesser]

One of the P5Q motherboards below that one will take an Nvidia card. That one says crossfire and I think that would be ATI(only?).

If you can afford an upgrade on the CPU I would try to. That one is only 800 FSB.

E7400 Dual Core Processor LGA775 2.8GHZ 1066FSB would be better but it's another $100

This would be my choice:

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Dual Core Processor LGA775 3.0GHZ Wolfdale 1333FSB 6MB

[Fireman]

.....And thanks for that calculation site, very handy.....

Thank Roger, he gave me the link.

[B16Enk]

A crossfire board will take an nVidia card, but you won't be able to SLi it with another card.

The 8 pin connector is part of the ATX 2.0 standard, and is provided by a compliant PSU not the mobo

[Fireman]

I'm still looking around and checking to see if there is a comperable mobo (features and price) to the one I've chosen here.

[Blairgowrie]

Andrew. I think you are getting close but that CPU still troubles me and I think you might regret not getting something better down the road. You need a balanced system and that CPU will hold you back. Don't want to send you off in another direction but I saw this on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.ca/INTEL-DUAL-CORE-E7400-2-80G-COMPUTER-320G-2GB-DVDRW-NEW_W0QQitemZ250342796938QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDesktop_PCs?hash=item250342796938&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

The company is in Markham and you could always call them and discuss what other motherboards they have since the one they show is onboard graphics. It has a 600watt PSU and a nice looking case. I am sure they would let you have a bigger hard drive as well. You would get a assembled computer, and a choice of an Operating System. You could also drive down to pick it up and save yourself a pile on shipping costs that you will incur if you buy parts from NCIX. Just another option m8 but you will get a better CPU.

[Falconise]

All mobos with PCIe slots will take both ATI and NV cards. With a crossfire board, you can run two ATI cards, with an SLI board you can run two NV cards. You can't run two NV cards in a crossfire board, or two ATI cards in an SLI board. However, the latest Intel X58 chipset for the core ixxx cpus can usually do both -- it is a liscencing thing with Nvidia that was holding things back and that is now resolved. An X58 system is not cheap.

One of the linked boards is not a P5QL, it is a P5Q Pro. The other is a P5QL Pro. The biggest differences are that the more expensive one has a better location for the main ATX power line, it takes an 8 pin EPS power connection rather than a 4 pin 12V (needs a better PSU, 500W and up namebrand should be OK), it hasbetter onboard cooling and heatsinks, it is a larger size board (the P5QL is narrower yet still an ATX), it has Crossfire support, and a number of other features that are lacking in the P5QL.

IMHO, the P5Q Pro is worth the extra money, especially if you hold on to it long enough to upgrade your processor to a quad later.

The GTS 250 is a very good card for the money. I run a 9800GTX, which is basically identical to the GTS250, yet is still more expensive. The GTS250 is a very new product with a lower price bracket, uses a smaller die process and only needs 1x 6pin PCIe power connection where the 9800GTX requires two (needs a better PSU).

And yes, that processor comes with a fan. Any retail box CPU will come with a fan, and (generally) only OEM processors do not. The thing is, the stock fan performs poorly and makes a lot of noise. Temps are generally 10+ degrees higher at idle, and skyrocket with quad cores at load. Regardless of overclocking or not, the Freezer Pro is very quiet, runs a lot cooler, only costs $20, is very easy to clean, and has a 6 year warrany. It is sort of like putting a tranny cooler or BRA on your car... it will be more durable and last longer for only a few bucks.

I can tell you I have a box full of unused stock Intel cpu coolers, and have never let a system out of my workshop using one. I go with at least a Freezer, and often even better if the client wants to spend the cash.

with regards to these two mobo:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=31839

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=30418

they are both P5QL Asus boards.

[Blairgowrie]

You have convinced me about that Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro cpu heatsink Falconise. I am planning on overclocking an E8500 up to 3.5 and would feel a lot more easy if there was a newer and better fan on it than a stock Intel one that is on there now. But where do you get it at $20? NCIX shows $35.99!

[Falconise]

One problem with the OCZ StealthXStream is that it does not have an 8pin EPS connection, it only has a 4pin 12V. It will probably run the P5Q Pro just fine with only the 4pin and a diual core cpu, but with a quad core cpu there is no garantee. If you go with the P5QL Pro you will be fine. Otherwise, I'd suggest the Corsair or step up to the OCZ 600w model.

Better deal on the DVD here:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=35499&promoid=1060

NCIX has a weekly sale page, click the banner on the top of the main page to go here:

http://www.ncix.com/promo/promosale.php?webid=playoffs2009

... and find a ton of deals. These change every wed evening, so that link will go dead...

Same with the HD:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=36050&vpn=ST3500418AS&manufacture=Seagate&promoid=1060

Also, NCIX accepts pricematching. You can find better prices on components from a few other places, making the purchase at NCIX at the matched price. Believe it or not, two of these other retailers are owned by NCIX:

http://www.directcanada.com/

http://www.nxsource.com/

Search for better prices here:

http://hardwarecanucks.pricecanada.com/

Then, in your cart at NCIX, click pricematch, add the prices and links, and they will verify and accept them when you place your order. If one price is NOT accepted, you have the option of changing it for something else, accepting the original price, or cancelling the order.

You can also save shipping costs if you watch for an item in your list that comes with a Free Shipping for Entire Order deal. Sometimes, it is worth upgrading a part for this as the shipping costs are more than the part difference cost.

Otherwise, this looks like a solid build. I've seen it many times with very similar components. It is quite powerful using quality components at the lowest price range.

That case comes with two 120mm fans, which should be fine. It has mounts for two more on the side panel, which would help in GPU and CPU cooling, but add in noise. I think unless you are overclocking to the limit, or running two vid cards, you don't need to fill those slots.

You should be fine cable-wise, the mobo comes with everything you need.

500 watts should be fine, with a name brand PSU. You will rarely reach that 400w load.

OK, this is what I've been looking at so far.......

(I've decided to make this a purchase for me...daughter gets my leftover...lol)

Case:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26048&promoid=1060

PSU:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26884&promoid=1060

MOBO:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=30418

[Falconise]

Semi agreed. The 1066MHz FSB cpu will run lockstep with ram at 1066MHz, which is less stressfull on the northbridge as well as a faster bus to the ram and cpu. However, you can run those 800MHz FSB cpus at 1066MHz easily, and even 1333MHz with a good board and cooling. That is overclocking though...

If the budget does not allow an E8400 or quad core from the start, might as well get a cheaper CPU to live with until you can upgrade the CPU to a faster one. IMHO, this is always better than saving money and waiting to make the purchase because this way you can at least use and enjoy the system in the meantime.

If you can afford an upgrade on the CPU I would try to. That one is only 800 FSB.

E7400 Dual Core Processor LGA775 2.8GHZ 1066FSB would be better but it's another $100

This would be my choice:

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Dual Core Processor LGA775 3.0GHZ Wolfdale 1333FSB 6MB

[Fireman]

the more expensive of those 2 boards that linked comes with free shipping for the entire order....I just didnt wat to get it if the nVidia card wouldnt work in it...

I beleive it is the one I chose in that final spec.

[Falconise]

Not dissing you here...

The motherboard offered is a low end G31 chipset, good for surfing not for gaming.

That case may look nice but it is really a POS. A client of mine has and older version of one, it's on my bench at this very moment. It is very cheap inside, and will not house 120mm fans (it takes two 80mm in the rear, loud by comparrison). The intake fan slot is empty and sevearly limited because it has nowhere to get it's air from. The USB and sound ports are in a bad location, bottom of front.

The PSU is a noname made by Delta, very risky. It may be rated at 600w, but will probably only do 400w sustained load. A 600w PSU that does not have an 8pin EPS connection, Active PFC or 80% Plus certification is a bad buy. Compare it's specs to the Corsair 400w, which is a far better PSU even though it is rated at 400w:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=33357&vpn=CMPSU%2D400CX&manufacture=CORSAIR&promoid=1060

Supports the latest ATX12V v2.2 standard and is backwards compatible with ATX12V 2.01 systems.

Ultra-quiet 120mm double ball-bearing fan delivers excellent airflow at an exceptionally low noise level by varying the RPM in response to temperature.

High efficiency topology to ensure energy savings.

99% Active Power Factor Correction provides clean and reliable power to your system.

Universal AC input 90~264V automatically scans and detects the correct voltage. No more hassle of flipping that tiny red switch!

Dedicated single +12V rail offers maximum compatibility with latest components.

Over Current/Voltage/Power Protection, Under Voltage Protection, and Short Circuit Protection provides maximum safety to critical system components.

Extra long cables support full tower chassis.

Standard ATX PS/2 size: 5.9"(W) x 3.4"(H) X 5.5"(L); 150mm(W) x 86mm(H) x 140mm(L)

Three year warranty and lifetime access to Corsair?s legendary technical support and service.

Andrew. I think you are getting close but that CPU still troubles me and I think you might regret not getting something better down the road. You need a balanced system and that CPU will hold you back. Don't want to send you off in another direction but I saw this on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.ca/INTEL-DUAL-CORE-E7400-2-80G-COMPUTER-320G-2GB-DVDRW-NEW_W0QQitemZ250342796938QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDesktop_PCs?hash=item250342796938&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

The company is in Markham and you could always call them and discuss what other motherboards they have since the one they show is onboard graphics. It has a 600watt PSU and a nice looking case. I am sure they would let you have a bigger hard drive as well. You would get a assembled computer, and a choice of an Operating System. You could also drive down to pick it up and save yourself a pile on shipping costs that you will incur if you buy parts from NCIX. Just another option m8 but you will get a better CPU.

[Falconise]

It often goes on sale, but even then a pricematch is usually better. Price these days is $22, up a bit due to exchange rate and crappy economics.

http://hardwarecanucks.pricecanada.com/detail.php?product_id=235551&sku=FREEZER7PRO

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=10450AC4602&vpn=FREEZER-7-PRO&manufacture=ARCTIC%20COOLING

You have convinced me about that Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro cpu heatsink Falconise. I am planning on overclocking an E8500 up to 3.5 and would feel a lot more easy if there was a newer and better fan on it than a stock Intel one that is on there now. But where do you get it at $20? NCIX shows $35.99!

[Falconise]

No hurry... these deals come up all the time. You've waited a long time for this already, no worries about a few more weeks.

the more expensive of those 2 boards that linked comes with free shipping for the entire order....I just didnt wat to get it if the nVidia card wouldnt work in it...

I beleive it is the one I chose in that final spec.

[Fireman]

bah, you guys are starting to confuse me............lol

Falconise,

If I understand you correctly, the final spec I was thinking of ordering is pretty good. (it is using the more expensive of those 2 mobos and has the proper connectors for what I'd need, even If I upgrade to a quad core in the future....I had chosen the asus p5q pro crossfire one)

But I should look at the different dvd drive(the one I had chosen was sata though not IDE) and hdd?

And maybe a different psu since the one I've chosen doesnt have an 8 pin EPS connection which I'd need if I ever upgraded the cpu to a quad. but would be fine with the current cpu?

correct?

[Fireman]

a lot of mail in rebates required in order to shave a few buck here and there........

[Fireman]

Well,

This is what I've narrowed it down to: (based on advice and price matching at NCIX)

Case:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26048&promoid=1060

PSU: (changed it to this based on advice to get the 8pin EPS connection)

[Blairgowrie]

Thanks Falconise. Great to see someone with your knowledge and experience post on the Forum.

[Falconise]

Yes Fireman, you have that right!

The final spec is very good and quite common. Swap out the cpu and video for higher end ones, and you have a state of the art high powered system that will rock any game on the market at high resolutions and max details. The rest of the components don't come into play much, providing they are up to snuff to run what you have. In the meantime, you have a very competent system that will be quite fast, and overclockable to very fast, at a reasonable start price.

I didn't realise the DVD I posted was IDE, shows you how easy a mistake can be made. I just didn't expect NCIX to still be selling them on sale. No, you don't want IDE, you want SATA... and IDE DVD would come into the mix only if you planned on using all the sata ports for hard drives, or have an older system.

Nevertheless, they do sell the SATA version for the same price on sale. The only options they have this week are both $27:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=33902&vpn=SH%2DS223F%2FBEBS&manufacture=Samsung&promoid=1060

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=32234&vpn=GH22NS30%20BLACK&manufacture=LGElectronics&promoid=1060

I have no preference over the two. Next week, I'd bet there will be a sata drive for $22 on sale.

I am very sorry, the hard drive is wrong too. That's a 16MB cache version and seems to be the latest model (7200.12 as opposed to a 7200.11). Amazing how fast things change... for months the only 500gb seagate available was the 32mb version or the older 7200.10 16mb version). It seems that Seagate are no longer producing a 32MB version of a 500gb drive, and I also notice the warranty is down to 3 years from the previous 5 years. There is no stock in on the 32mb version, so this part is still up in the air and needs more research (it's possible the newer 16mb drive is still faster than the older 32mb drive, but I really like the 5 year warranty). Let me get back on this later...

You are correct again about the PSU. The 500w OCZ is a very nice unit, although it is minimalist in features it is rock bottom price for a quality unit. It has two problems: it only has 3x SATA and 2x 4pin peripheral (??) and lacks an 8pin EPS connection. The sata power is no problem for you, with only the dvd and hd to connect. I feel that you do need the 8 pin EPS connector though. While that board will run fine with only a 4pin and dual core, it may run fine with a quad core too, but you won't know untill you try. If you use an 8 pin, there will be no problem.

Upgrading the PSU later with the CPU can be undue hardship and a bit of a PITA. However, if you have something else the old PSU can be used in, it is worth considering. Getting a unit with an 8pin now may be better. Some optional units:

The Corsair 400w at $65 has an 8pin EPS, 6x sata 6x 4pin peripheral. That is miles ahead of the OCZ as far as connections go. The cables are long and sleeved, the case has awesome paint, quiet fan, and underrated for a solid 400w which could actually mean 500w sustained.

http://www.corsairmicro.com/products/cx/default.aspx

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=33357&vpn=CMPSU%2D400CX&manufacture=CORSAIR&promoid=1060

OCZ's StealthXStream 600w has all the appropriate connections, nothing lacking here at all (I am running two of them in different systems). At $85, it is approaching a higher end price. Cables are nice and long, and sleeved. OCZ bought PC Power & Cooling (arguably the best PSU manufacturer in the world), and PCP&P have made this unit for them all along. The biggest difference with this unit is that it will run dual video cards (2x PCIe 6pin).

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23934&vpn=OCZ600SXS&manufacture=OCZTechnology&promoid=1060

Receptacles: 1 x 24-pin ATX Motherboard

1 x 8-pin EPS12V Motherboard

2 x 6-pin PCI-E

3 x Serial ATA

2 x 4-pin SP4 Floppy Drive

6 x 4-pin LP4 Peripheral Device

You can see, it is still short of sata connectors! Note that the GameXStream version of this unit has an LED fan, and that's about the only difference. Stealth = no lights, Game = lights.

Another one at $85, the Seasonic 500w:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=29896&vpn=SS%2D500GB&manufacture=SeasonicElectronics&promoid=1060

For a 500w unit, it has the best connector combination of the lot. Can take two vid cards, 6x sata, and 9x peripheral! Seasonic are know for very solid PSUs.

Connectors: 1x 20+4pin Main Power; 1x 8pin EPS12V; 1x 4pin ATX12V; 2x 4pin 3.5"" FDD; 1x 6pin PCI-Express; 1x 6+2pin PCI-Express; 6x SATA; 9x 4pin Peripheral

bah, you guys are starting to confuse me............lol

Falconise,

If I understand you correctly, the final spec I was thinking of ordering is pretty good. (it is using the more expensive of those 2 mobos and has the proper connectors for what I'd need, even If I upgrade to a quad core in the future....I had chosen the asus p5q pro crossfire one)

But I should look at the different dvd drive(the one I had chosen was sata though not IDE) and hdd?

And maybe a different psu since the one I've chosen doesnt have an 8 pin EPS connection which I'd need if I ever upgraded the cpu to a quad. but would be fine with the current cpu?

correct?