Kira Posted February 14, 2015 Author Posted February 14, 2015 Just updated the first post. I'm looking to spend more than I wanted (okay, a lot more), but then I'm also figuring on long term viability and adaptability of the system. I'd like to swap out the RAM when I get the chance, but since I have the old stuff, I figure I can make it work for a while. I may swap out my old CPU cooling fan as well, since it still works. Again, a matter of "new", vs "still works". If it fails, it shouldn't be catastrophic like a power unit failure, though. I don't know for a fact that it will, as the old fan is AMD and the new board is Intel. Quote
DD_Arthur Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Kira, just to be certain; none of your old stuff is going to work with a new board. Your RAM is DDR2 - a new board will only accept DDR3. your cpu cooling fan will not work with a new cpu but that's not a problem as if you buy a new cpu it will come with a fan. The only thing you'll be able to reuse is your monitor and box. I suspect you'll be needing a new key board and mouse too. If you build it yourself it will work out cheaper and be to a higher spec than any Dell. Quote
Kira Posted February 14, 2015 Author Posted February 14, 2015 Ah. Thanks Arthur. Time to go RAM hunting. Is the roughly $10 per GB I'm running across accurate? I suspected building myself would be cheaper, but now I'm wondering. The price is $100 and will be closer to $200 more than I was thinking for this build originally - but - it's still around the same price that I payed for this one originally (minus case)... that lasted 8-10 years. I know the I7 4390K is overkill today, but figure that around the 4-5 year mark it'll be mainstream in capability, and like this one, at 8-10 years will be majorly long in the tooth but probably will still run things at lower settings. However, I'm rather happy with the thought of "got what I want rather than what they happened to have", and think it might be worth the extra price. I'll have to run that by a friend who got an I7 based computer five years ago for just about $1000. This is the one he waited for two months camping Dell's overstock and "ordered it but then canceled" section to find. That thing would run rings around this one, even five years ago. I'm still a bit concerned about power. Nvidia recommends 600W as minimum when using their 4390K, and I'm not one to go against manufacturer recommendations. Additionally I'm not looking to overclock now, but "might" in the future. It seems a bad thing to do to a card you'd like to have last as long as possible. Also, I've discovered that power packs loose efficiency like everything else as they get old, and will slowly reduce their output while load will be the same. I'm seriously considering a 650W instead for that reason, but am not entirely sure that's necessary. I'll be running this thing often enough that if I don't have to pull that extra 50W, I really, really don't want to. One of the reasons I went with the I7, then the K in the first place was power consumption vs capability, and I'm afraid that an extra 50W (if) I don't need will kill any savings from the extra efficiency of the K over standard I7 and I7 over I5. Quote
2. Administrators Jabo Posted February 14, 2015 2. Administrators Posted February 14, 2015 Re: PSU - I tend to go for a larger capacity PSU than required so it doesn't have to run at full tilt all the time thereby reducing the wear and tear on the internals. Incidentally although the k series chips are marginally more efficient than the corresponding standard chip, they are a lot more expensive and only really worthwhile if you're planning to overclock the rig. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
1. DDz Quorum FoolTrottel Posted February 14, 2015 1. DDz Quorum Posted February 14, 2015 The power supply is not delivering/drawing full load all of the time, it does that only when it's needed... Oh, and me thinks you are overthinkin' this way too much. All that time spent in research, why not go fishing, and sell the fish you caught! Much more efficient! Quote
2. Administrators Jabo Posted February 14, 2015 2. Administrators Posted February 14, 2015 @FT - lol - that's part of the fun! One other thing Kira, make sure you shop about if you have the time, I think the bits for my rig have come from at least half a dozen suppliers Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
Kira Posted February 14, 2015 Author Posted February 14, 2015 About power: Yep, I've heard the same Jabo. Hate to burn it up for want of that extra 50W buffer. Overthink? Naw. If anything underthink. Just look at my choice with the K, knowing full well that I don't really need the extra since I'm (probably) not going to be overclocking. Nah, Jabo's right. Part of the fun is specing it out. I am, however, leery of other than brand name parts shall we say. Just a matter of "it's going to last" and "what's little more spent when I'm spending this much?" Well, I already know the answer to the second! A little, plus a little, plus... ohmyGod! Time? I've been thinking about this "need" for a new build for at least one and possibly two years! The problem is that now I've finally decided that it really is time, and as FT says, the fish are waiting! (And they don't wait patiently!) Regarding the 4390 vs 4390K 4390 $300 4390K $320 ...? It's $20. When I'm already spending that much, and this is the heart of the computer... Quote
1. DDz Quorum FoolTrottel Posted February 14, 2015 1. DDz Quorum Posted February 14, 2015 Yes, go for the K. Even if you are not into overclocking now, later on, when you need it most, you'll be glad you did. Quote
DD_Arthur Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 A quick glide through Newegg with specs as an i74790k @4ghz on a Gigabyte mobo with 8gig of ram, an EVGA 960 graphics card, Antec 750w power supply and DVD drive came to $835 plus the cost of Windows7 64bit. That's £542 or euro733. That's pretty good. Quote
Kira Posted February 15, 2015 Author Posted February 15, 2015 Hum. I'm already $100 over that, not including the OS, using the 770 and 600W. It's still less than I paid for this system when I bought it. Looks like I need to find where you found! (Which is...?) I'll look back on Newegg and see. That's where I've been looking anyway. Quote
2. Administrators Jabo Posted February 15, 2015 2. Administrators Posted February 15, 2015 Don't forget to factor in an HDD Kira, unless your existing one(s) is/are SATA Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
DD_Arthur Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Here you go Kira; CPU : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369&cm_re=i7_4790k-_-19-117-369-_-Product Mobo : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128714&cm_re=gigabyte_ga-z97x-sli-_-13-128-714-_-Product Ram : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220909 GPU : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487092 PSU : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371066 DVD : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151269 OS : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416806 Edit; oh yeah, an HD! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148840 Now up to $967 all in. Quote
Kira Posted February 15, 2015 Author Posted February 15, 2015 Thanks again Jabo. Yup mine are all SATA. No, I don't run all three. Usually two, and usually the 2TB's one of them. I'd like to change that, since it's not what I got it for in the first place, but that depends on my 250 and if I can salvage anything on it or just start over with it. Arthur: Yep, $967's more like what I'm looking at. Didn't mean for you to go back through it all, but I do appreciate it. Best thank you I can come up with? Well, we are the Dogz. What's the only thank you worth its salt? Have a sheep! I came up with $945 from what I was looking at, minus some major parts. Rundown below: CPU: I7 4790K $320 [i7 4790K $320] Board: Z97-A $145 [Z97-X SLI $115] RAM: Hadn't nailed it but figuring 4 GB at about $40 [Patriot Viper 8GB $70] Graphics: Nvidia GTX 770 $310 [EVGA GTX 960 $210] Power: Corsair 600W or 650W $65 or $75 [Antec 750 $80] DVD: LG 2x DVD:RW in hand $0 [samsung $21] OS: Win 7 $? working on a friend who's using Win 8 now... [Win 7 $100] HD: 1x 120GB SSD, 1x 250GB HHD, 1x 2TB HHD [seagate $51] TOTALS: Original: $990 might be less. Suggested (Arthur): $795 (+up to 151 = $945) I understand most of it, but there are a few I don't follow. 1. RAM. I haven't heard of these guys. But, they're on Ebay's list of top gaming RAM manufactures, so they can't be that bad. Right? http://www.ebay.com/gds/Top-8-Best-Rated-Gaming-Ram-/10000000178078475/g.html Also regarding RAM: Is one stick better than two? 1x 8GB or 2x 4GB 2. Graphics. The GTX 960 is a conundrum. How is it that it's fairly comparable (perhaps slightly less capable), from a reputable company (I have an EVGA 240 in my current build), yet a two-thirds the price of the 770? Is it in part due to 3rd party manufacturing ie it's not the name brand card? Also, why the higher number yet comparable performance? http://gpuboss.com/gpus/GeForce-GTX-960-vs-GeForce-GTX-770 3. Power. Antec's another I hadn't heard of, but upon more research, it's mentioned as one of the better ones. Once again the question arises: Do I need the 750W or will 600-650 do? Still working various calculators figuring this number. 4. Speaking of "major parts", I'm still using an old CRT. Thing's like the Energizer bunny, it just won't quit. But the other day, I ran into a deal on a refurbished LCD for $12. Ridiculous, thought I, can it be true? More important: Is it worth risking (a whopping $12!) on an old "refurbished" monitor? Silly question, but I'm asking it anyway! Still, "refurbished" makes me leery, but the price is right. I know I'm going to want an LCD with all this capability I'm cramming into this new machine, no two ways about it. Most of them were pretty small 17" or so. I'm thinking somewhere in the region of 21"-24" or so. My old 21" CRT was just huge, and wouldn't fit in my space, but with an LCD, I'd be more than okay. I do have overhead issues, though, with a shelf mounted to the wall that the 21" CRT wouldn't fit under. With an LCD, though, I could pull it out from under and it'd be okay. The shelf covers about half of my computer desk, but there's plenty of room up "forward". Quote
2. Administrators Jabo Posted February 15, 2015 2. Administrators Posted February 15, 2015 Hi Kira, 1. RAM - I've used both Corsair Vengeance (current) and Kingston HyperX memory without any problems - recommended. I'd go for 8GB rather than 4 and you'll need to buy pairs of sticks so 2 x 4 would be the way to go. 2. GPU - there can be a number of factors affecting GPU price, but graphics memory is a major one. Personally I'd go for a slower card with more memory particularly if you're flight simming. My 3GB 580 still holds up well against 600 and (some, at least) 700 series cards running less memory. Manufacturer is also a factor in the price but EVGA is as good as any. 3. Power - you know my views on this - overspec and you won't need to worry about any peculiar power issues because you've go plenty in reserve. Likely to make the PSU last longer too. 4. Monitor - frankly if you're still using a CRT a $12 punt on a refurbed LCD has to be worth a try if just to get that monster off your desk. That said, monitors up to 24" are pretty reasonable new if you're looking foe something fairly standard.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
1. DDz Quorum FoolTrottel Posted February 15, 2015 1. DDz Quorum Posted February 15, 2015 You do not need to use them in pairs any longer... can do with a single 8Gb. If needed, add another one later... Quote
2. Administrators Jabo Posted February 15, 2015 2. Administrators Posted February 15, 2015 Erm, surely that depends on the mobo? My gigabyte board is crippled running on a single stick Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
1. DDz Quorum FoolTrottel Posted February 15, 2015 1. DDz Quorum Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) True dat ! It is a recent development me thinks, so a new mobo ... Edited February 15, 2015 by FoolTrottel Quote
DD_Arthur Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 2 x 4gigs of decent ram will see you fine Kira. 4gigs will not really be enough on its own as Windows will be using 2gigs merely to run. I would have thought replacing your CRT screen with something thin, flat and modern would gain you the biggest power saving overall and the size and resolution of this monitor should govern your choice of graphics card too. The 960 is Nvidia's latest mid range card and in combination with a new CPU will have no problem running all current flight sims at max everything. You could put the savings you make over a 770 towards something like this; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236175 Quote
Kira Posted February 15, 2015 Author Posted February 15, 2015 "size and resolution of this monitor should govern your choice of graphics card too." Thank you Arthur, that's something "obvious" that I'd completely overlooked. What about lifespan of the LCDs? As I've stated, these daggone CRTs just won't quit, which is part of the reason I'm still using it. You have a point about power consumption though. Another power question: FT said that the power unit isn't running full load often. I understand this. Question is will a 750W unit pull more from the wall than my current 450W unit constantly, or is it only a matter of having the extra power capability there if and only when it's needed? As per what to put the savings towards, I was thinking cheap refurbished monitors may be easy to come by. Rather than spend for new, I was thinking something more like this with the extra savings from this modified build: http://livingwithanerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/hotas-warthog-thrustmaster-joystick.jpg Single versus dual RAM. Space is a major question, as is power pull on a single slot. The 8GB is "taller" than the 4, but using 2x4 uses 2 slots. The 8 also would pull twice as much from a single slot. If I go with 4, I think I can put up to 16 in. 8 would mean 32. This current machine started life with 3gb and now has 4. I've not had much issue with need to add a boatload of RAM. Thinking that 8 would work for now, and 16 would be the maximum I'd need over the life of the machine. Thus, 2x4 ( eight!!! damned smilyface! GRRRRR) and eventually 4x4 (16) would work just fine. No need for 1x8 or eventually 2x4+2x8 (24) or 1x8x4 (32) in the long run based on experience with this machine. Graphics cards and monitors. Am I correct that I'm looking for specific resolution, which is directly tied to screen size (17" would provide lower resolution perhaps than a 21-24"?) and weather it's widescreen or not? I got the impression that resolution had more to do with aspect ratio than actual screen size. Basically number of pixels horizontally and vertically which isn't directly tied to screen size. Wait. That doesn't make sense. Bigger screen = more pixels = greater resolution for Graphics card to need to put out. Quote
1. DDz Quorum FoolTrottel Posted February 15, 2015 1. DDz Quorum Posted February 15, 2015 Not sure about that PSU wattage usage ... few weeks ago I had a digital power meter connected to the power of my computer(s). Running CloD, its usage went up to about 450W, (I think I got a 650W PSU in the pc), in idle/browsing mode it was about 180 to 200W, depending on having a secondary monitor switched on or off. (Note: the meter was catching not just the PC's power, but also all other equipment (incl. a light bulb, a modern one). One would not expect a 750W to be using more power in the same situation... (I have not tuned my system to be power sav(v)y ... I think.) As for how long CRT's last vs. TFT/LCD I think it'll be a close call. Got a feeling that the flat screens last even longer than CRT's (currently, at work, I see very little of them fail, I think less than the CRT's in their days...) Also, please do realize that the monitor is the most important thing here, you will be looking at it a lot. It is your main interface with the virtual environment! Widescreen is what you want, much better in flight, you see more of the air! Up to a certain point, bigger is better, but resolution is also important, they are closely related. Just this week, I heard someone being happy with a 40" TV Screen, at 1920x1080. Dots were a lot bigger, and indeed easier to spot. Yeah, why would that be? Quote
2. Administrators Jabo Posted February 15, 2015 2. Administrators Posted February 15, 2015 Like FT says. IMO 24" is a useful sort of size for a monitor although the dots on a 40" running at the same resolution would be bigger because the pixels are bigger. Regardless of the 770 or the 960 - you'll have no problems with the resolution Quote
Kira Posted February 15, 2015 Author Posted February 15, 2015 Good to hear. I've been using an oooolllldddd CRT that I got for all of $1 from a thrift store when my 24" monster originally went on the fritz many years back. It's been running fine, but I think you're right about the "you don't know what you're missing!!!" No sense in getting a seriously capable machine and then skimping on my ability to enjoy what it has to offer. Ohhh, bigger dots! Can't imagine why he likes his 40" on the same resolution. Sneaky bugger! I have noticed on the 97Z someone said something about the RAM slots not all being usable under certain conditions. I've also read something about it in the specs. Am currently wondering if this is another of the "guys who badmouth a certain piece of hardware because they think they know more than they do, and they don't have things right" deals. Quote
DD_Arthur Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 I think the ram slot thing might be a genuine concern. When you open the box on your new graphics card I think you'll be surprised at the size of the thing. They got biggggg! There is certainly a possibility you might not be able to use all your memory slots under certain configurations as the card might now allow it - just ask Crash! Edit; on my board the size of the card means I have to be careful where I mount the HD's. Quote
Crash Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 The size of my 780 caused a bit of grief but it was worth it Quote
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