DoubleTap Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 D-DAY AFTER ACTION REPORT Forgive me if this gets long, I’ll try to be brief (and fail), but I hash things better for myself when I write them out. I also would appreciate insight on some of the more technical issues presented. First of all, I wanted to thank everyone who joined up on Friday, and for making it a memorable experience. It is hard enough to get 4 adults who live locally together for an event, let alone 21 of them living across 6-7 time zones, in several different countries. Considering the logistics of that alone, let alone the technical pitfalls, it went smoothly. You guys were great in dealing with delays and snafus that occurred. Second, while there were a few issues, I was very pleased with the overall result, and it looks like most of you were too, which makes me glad. People have been expressing what worked for them and made it a good experience, so allow me a couple of thoughts. One, the missions thankfully seemed to be very competitive in the end. (some say TOO competitive, heh. See below). By that I mean I think that things were close in all of them. The first mission in particular was literally a nail biter. Imagine this; as Psycho is lining up his cross hairs on a P-47 (and Red’s last pilot) somewhere on the map, Painless is lining up his attack run on a group of trains which will put Red over the top on its objectives. Probably within seconds they both fire, and Painless only manages to destroy the trains moments before the P-47 blows up in a fireball. This is Hollywood action kind of stuff. Second, this being a simulation, the theory should hold, generally, that what works in real life should work in the sim. While there are limitations to it, of course, I found the principle to hold true. Take the P-38 for example. Historically, it was a valued (and feared) airplane for its role, but in the European theatre, it did not fair well as a dogfighter, and quickly switched to ground attack roles when other more suitable fighters became available. I think this follows in the sim in that the P-38 is definitely not a plane of choice for dog-fighting with most people. For ground attack, however, it is hard to find a more capable fighter, at least in the theatre and scenario we were engaged in. For the ground attack role, flying the P-38 was eye-opening. Suddenly, my need to knock out as many bunkers as possible made the 10 rockets and up to 2000lbs of bombs a Godsend. The fact that the thing could maintain good speed while loaded, and then could get the hell out of dodge when empty made it shine. A big reason why I wanted to do these kind of missions was to allow all the different models of aircraft a chance to prove their stuff in the situations for which they best suited. I think that this kind of format really helps accomplish that. Also, the principle of air superiority was proven a couple of times, particularly in the last mission. I don’t know what the Blue experience was at that point, but it seemed Red was somehow able to establish a firm hold on the air there which was hard to break. One of the most exciting moments for me was flying around Caen in patrol, and someone announcing the Me-262 had arrived. Yikes! Where?!? Don’t know, but I hear a wing-mate calling for help from a 109, and I dive down to the deck after him, brushing him off. The 109 starts running and I give chase down to the deck. Can I catch him? Looks like it, but not fast enough. We’re running from the city, so I figure I can open up my WEP and my radiator. I am gaining. He looks like he is running for home, so I could run into more enemy fighters, but I might also find his airfield and go to town. Heh. But, be careful. I call out, “Hey, I am chasing down this 109. Can someone watch my back?†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAZZA Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Haha, that was me in the 262! I was cursing the miss and your great timing as i rocketed by, then i saw you spin and crash the 262 was great thanks to Dave for allocating me to fly it, i had a blast. really tough to get kills, i knew i needed to stay rapid and it makes for a 700kph 45 degree deflection shot which are damn hard. i seem to recall ripping off your tail section in another pass later on though :twisted: thanks for your write up m8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knutsac Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 I think I was the 109 running for my life...I seem to find myself in that position too often. Thanks for all your work putting the show on, I had a great time. Knutsac (aka Wait One) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleTap Posted June 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Haha, that was me in the 262! I was cursing the miss and your great timing as i rocketed by, then i saw you spin and crashthe 262 was great thanks to Dave for allocating me to fly it, i had a blast. really tough to get kills, i knew i needed to stay rapid and it makes for a 700kph 45 degree deflection shot which are damn hard. i seem to recall ripping off your tail section in another pass later on though :twisted: thanks for your write up m8 Was that you? I seem to recall that happening, but I thought it was a wing. In any event, I never knew what the hell hit me. One moment I am flying above Caen, looking below for bogey's, the next thing BOOM! I am still looking at Caen, but its spinning. WTF? :shock: Heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonar Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 A MONTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadAim Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Glenn, the simple fact of the matter is that you did an outatanding job at a really difficult task. The results were spectacular! :hello1: The few minor annoyances were just that: Minor., and if there is any acrimony over the vulching issue, I haven't seen any evidence of it past the initial reactions. This is the best part of doing this with mature adults, and the reason I joined the Dogz in the first place (and it took a long time) . I will stick my neck out here and propose that we do discuss some airfield guidelines (notice I don't say rules) to help keep things organized at the biggest problem area on dogfight maps. Things like a landing/take off direction, probably no lucky boys on dogfight maps, calling out takeoffs and landings (much of which we already do). Please note that I in no way am promoting a rulefest here, just guidelines to reduce airfield crashes. As for the airfield strafing issue, I'm quite sure we can work that out, I don't see any reason why we can't come up with a solution without alienating any one. Oh, yeah, we have to do something about the raised airfields, those things are freakin' brutal. I'm quite sure they are much easier/quicker to set up, so I will be more than happy to give you a hand with mission, map setup to ease some of your burden. I also would like to look into helping out with the hosting (have your girl call my girl). Oh, yea, as far as the timing, I'm not sure we want to do more than one a month. (some of us are pretty old and well, the strain on the ole ticker and all ) One more time ; Doubletap Rocks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1. DDz Quorum B16Enk Posted June 12, 2006 1. DDz Quorum Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Some input I'd like to give: AAA over airfields would work as an anti-vulch quite effectively, primarily because if there are no targets the AAA would be idle and would not impact FR or cause lag. If some spirited vulching were attempted the lag that would ensue should be enough to spoil it for the vulcher....and hopefully the victims would still be able to get airborne. Just a thought! Having a LAN side connection for your client would be more efficient, sharing 100Mbs as opposed to your ISP speed is usually a winner all round . The second copy of IL2 running would have caused some memory page swapping, so as you say is not a good idea! Skin downloads. On a Co-op night this will be Ok, but during a momentous event such as we had not so good. Chances are that some (if not all) of us would not have the skins some wish to parade. This would aggravate spawn lag too. Setting the server connection speed is critical, so it allocates bandwidth to the clients without starving them and causing lag. In days gone by it used to be suggested that clients set their speed settings to the ISDN setting, I don't know if that is still valid or not! Clients that do not have the muscle to render the sim at acceptable framerates can also have a deleterious effect on all players. When the server is waiting for a position/condition feedback from a struggling PC a warp will occur. Hosting and administering a DF server is a thankless task, often requiring the host or admins to F2 through the player roster to make sure there are no warpers (intentional or otherwise) and dealing with them. As we are a squad, and a bloody good one at that, this is not required as we can trust each other to not overtax our systems and spoil the event for others. Aim for around 30fps average in heavy maps and you can be fairly sure you won't cause lag or warp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleTap Posted June 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 A MONTH Dude, you know how long it takes to make a map? :? Actually, I am toying with the idea of using DCG to create missions, tweaking them, and them running them with FB Daemon. It would make things easier in the long run, although it might not be as slick. Badaim brings up a couple of good points, one of which is that someone with a good connection could also host and run these sessions. You just need to get set-up with the server and then FB Daemon software. If anyone is interested I suggest downloading the server software first and then getting to run successfully before bothering with FB Daemon. Although I am far from an expert, I could help walk you through. Also, anyone able to use the Full Mission Builder is able to make maps for FB Daemon. All it involves is making a dogfight maps with stationary type vehicles, and then doing a little cut and past in the mission properties file. Basically, the properties file (normally just has the briefing text) has some additional information that tells FB Daemon info it needs, like duration of the mission, which and how many vehicles/planes/guns etc count as objectives, and which map loads based on who wins. Technically, I really think its not that difficult once you get the hang of it, but the problem may lie in play-balancing. Again, I would be willing to walk people through it. I think most people want a pretty historical set-up, but at the same time they need to be roughly fair for either side. Roger, if the upload sections are working, I could post the mission files for D-Day so people can take a look at how they work. Also, BadAim, points taken about the airfields. One, the Allied Island airfield was particularly difficult because one had to taxi to even take off. I am sure a couple of the German were like that, so coordination is neccessary each air group. The dropoff airfields were a result of not having time to work on the map, and the problems with the map itself. Despite appearances, there are very few places where airfields will lie flat on the Normandy countryside, so it was even more difficult to fit several together, at least in the time I had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonar Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Just whining I know there is a lot involved in creating this. and the way time flys these days a month is no time at all. I'll just get some HE-111 pratice until then. so I can pound the Red airbase !!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleTap Posted June 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Thanks for the info Rog. It's good to get confirmation from the experts. Hopefully these things will improve things for next time. Couple of notes, though. Some input I'd like to give:AAA over airfields would work as an anti-vulch quite effectively, primarily because if there are no targets the AAA would be idle and would not impact FR or cause lag. If some spirited vulching were attempted the lag that would ensue should be enough to spoil it for the vulcher....and hopefully the victims would still be able to get airborne. Just a thought! One problem, though. The lag makes it as difficult, if not more, to take off than it is to strafe, particularly on a complicated/busy runway. Trust me, I know. I crashed a couple of times because I could not properly judge my speed and turning. At least if you start a strafing run and you sense things getting goofy, you can pull up and wait for things to calm down. Skin downloads.On a Co-op night this will be Ok, but during a momentous event such as we had not so good. Chances are that some (if not all) of us would not have the skins some wish to parade. This would aggravate spawn lag too. I usually have this turned off, and it was on Friday. I think it would be better to exchange skins for our PC libraries so we don't need to transmit during gameplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1. DDz Quorum Painless Posted June 12, 2006 1. DDz Quorum Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 ~S~ Glenn, You are obviously a man of many facets...............Your range seems to extend all the way from patient planner of operations and organizer of the masses..............through gracious mediator betweed slightly aggravated competitors...........................all the way down to.................. EEEEH !!EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHH !!!!! WHO'S FREAKIN' BURNIN' NOW YA BASTAGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All in all a well balanced gentleman with murderous tendencies LMFAO Sir !! Just can't say thanks enough for all the graft you put in, including the "debrief" Cheers fellow Dog, ~S~ Painless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleTap Posted June 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 EEEEH !!EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHH !!!!! WHO'S FREAKIN' BURNIN' NOW YA BASTAGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jeez, did I actually say that? I remember the "Oh, you are going to pay!" comments, but I seem to have blacked this portion out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 First off, at the risk of being redundant.... GLENN IS THE FREAKIN' MAN... Glenn ROCKS! and Glenn is the ruler of ALL that he surveys!!! I intend to take him out soon and get him quite PLASTERED (as he lives very close to me..) for all of his outstanding work! That being said, I have a solution to the vultching problem...... PSYCHO WILL NO LONGER VULTCH... I have personally apologized to some of the m8's on teamspeak last night... For anyone I have not spoken to yet, I am truly sorry. We are here to have FUN, and I realize that I made it distinctly UN-FUN for lots of people... Not to say that at the time I didn't squeal with GLEE like a deranged, coked out school girl at the bloodbath... (ask my unfortunate m8's on the radio with me) I realize now that it was very very wrong, and unless the mission clearly states that we are to kill people on the ground, I WILL NOT VULTCH... My hope is that my mates will forgive my maniacal, bloodthirsty, flying. sorry guys... You humble resident lunatic. Psycho... HHEHEHEHEH E HEH EHEH EHEHEHEHEHEEHEEHEHHH SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH Ooooopp ACKK pffffzt :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman68 Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Glenn how about doing the Battle of Britian, there is a great set of missions already made with maps and all the info needed.It would save you alot of work and most of the missions are pc friendly.It can be downloaded from airwarfare.com just a thought if you were stuck for ideals. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1. DDz Quorum Painless Posted June 12, 2006 1. DDz Quorum Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 ~S~ Glenn, I think you alluded to something along those lines at some stage sir, yes !! LOL Of course I could be mistaken , it may have been "air turbulence" ~S~ Painless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleTap Posted June 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 Glenn how about doing the Battle of Britian, there is a great set of missions already made with maps and all the info needed.It would save you alot of work and most of the missions are pc friendly.It can be downloaded from airwarfare.comjust a thought if you were stuck for ideals. :wink: Guitarman, I am already working on the next series, which will be set in the Med/North Africa. I wanted to do a much smaller map (although I am going to use every damn bit of it and then some!) to see how everyone fared as far as lag. I am working on a couple of unique (I think) ideas for it. However, yes, having premade maps to work from would be a big damn help. Can you give me a link to the missions you mean, and let me know what kind of missions you are thinking of. The reason I ask is since its a DF map, people will have to fly the bombers and I don't know how many want to fly those. Of course, I do recall that Stukas and 110's (and even some Italian planes, lord help them) were used against the more southern portion. Anyway, I will look them over and email you and we can go over ideas on how to structure the FBD missions. Doubletap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman68 Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 Glenn check out this link it has the complete campaign all in a folder with maps and info, i have been playing it on single player mode and its very good.Speak to you on t/s in the week. Hope this helps. http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer57 Posted June 19, 2006 Report Share Posted June 19, 2006 I loved it, despite the fact taht my comp crashed at least 5 times, mostly on the last misn. I have since rectified that with the help of my comrades on here. But it was fun....even if i did forget to map controls for my new pilot and wound up shooting at allied planes wiht 2 cowl guns... the pilot of that P47 loaded wiht bombs was pretty lucky. and yes, i can attest to what pschyco says....i was flying CAP (a more realistic scenario to air field attacks i thinK) and nothing was going on in my grid. I hear shootin going all over the place, but my and my Gustav (wiht the 30mm i didnt have mapped-duh) are like showing up at furballs that have already ended. then I hear P blowing charge and attacking allied planes on the ground "I got 5 of em smokin!" "look at em burn! ". Like the guy who stands up and yells something defiant and winds up leading a charge, i couldnt resist going to help.....then i hear him screaming about having allied fighter s all over him, how pissed they are, and I jsut had to get in on this. The adrenalin was actually running as i pulled into positoin to cover him, gunned a couple of guys in the air (without much effect wiht my puny MGs) and made it thru the laggy AA. That was a blast P. and thanx DT.....this was some of the bst fun ive had on a computer. and im really greatful for the honor of flyin with the dogs and the hounds. woof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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