A Little Bit Of History

[Ovy]

Hello Gents,

 

I'm sure i could have explained it better in persona over a beer or so but unfortunately we couldn't stay much longer with The Dogz while in UK.

Sensing a bit of (normal) curiosity about who we are and how things work in my part of the world , i'm trying to let you understand where we stand. Maddy (mrs. Ovy) tried to speak about it but don't know if she really made her point.

Moreover i do believe that almost all of you know more or less facts and figures belonging to Western countries or North America but i doubt this applies to my country ...just try this one

- can you name a single historical public figure, act, battle , musician, poet, or anything memorable from the geographic space named now Romania ? Discard from your answers Nadia Comaneci and Ceusescu & the so called Revolution - too widely covered by bolliticks and media )

 

If you can name one , well it's purely coincidal, if two than you should have been a history professor by now, if three or more - are you nuts? applying for Romanian citizenship??

 

Apart from joking here's a very , very short presentation.

 

Part 1 - historical

Home originally to the Tracian tribes ( part of the great family of Celts) , it was occupied by the Romans almost 2 milleniums again. This was the most Eastern frontier of their Empire - still is to this very moment the first line of defense of NATO. Look on the map and you'll get it...The local population , merged with the Romans , and adopted their language , culture and religion, still hanging on...

After the fall of the Romans every single nomadic tribe came across - huns, mongolians, turks, tatars, slavics in a continous come and go, for about 1000 years. Some local landlords emerged and they formed a country - Vallachia . In the next 1000 years, the country was either attacked and pillaged , or fell into submission to the Ottomanic Empire, AustroHungarian Empire , Polish Empire, Russian Empire  (and Communist Empire...) That went on until 1877 when we got independent and got our first King - Carol of Hohenzolern , followed at the begining of the new century by King Ferdinand and Queen Mary - Maria Alexandra Victoria de Saxa-Coburg și Gotha ( yep, niece of UK Queen Victoria) .

Then came WWI which we fought against Germans, and WW2 initially allied with Axis and like all "Latin w..kers" switched sides when things went bad.

Sold out by the West to Stalin , together with many other countries, we were invaded by thr Red Army, and forced into Communism, until the fall of Ceausescu.

 

Part 2 - personal

Some of you gits have continous laws and properties stretching back countless generation, so just try to imagine this:

My grandfather was born in 1903 , in Transylvania , then part of Austrian Empire, as a Romanian Roman Catholic minority with Austrian citizenship, no property whatsoever - national anthem no.1

In 1918 what is now called Romania was formed , including Transilvania. He became Romanian, received a small piece of land by King's empowerement - new national anthem no.2 (Long live the King)

In 1940 by Moltov - Ribbentrop Act the Transilvania region was given to Hungary , for their support in the war. Grandpa took his family (my old man too) and crossed the mountains to Romania, threatend to be killed due to being a Church Pastor by Hungarian extremists  , returning home in 1945. Lost his land in the meantime , recovered it only for just a few more years.

1947 Under Red Army's boot , King Michael ( some cousin to E II R ) was forced into exile, Parliament abolished, all properties nationalized , become Popular Republic - anthem no.3

1965 After managing by miracle to get the Red Army out of country ( we were the only one in succeding that in the East) Ceausescu came to power , he calls for a new anthem - no.4

1975 In full glory , treated like "the terrible child of Communism" - pretty much like Tito too, Ceausescu changes the country into Socialist Republic , and , you guessed...a new anthem - no.5

1990 After the events culminating with the execution of the tyrant new form of state - simply Republic of Romania, and of course , new anthem - no.6 . Dad took over some land in compensation to the old one , no fertile land, sold it for almost nothing...

2016 The voices are becoming more loud here - maybe we should reinstall King Michael on the Throne ...hey , but what's going on in EU

 

So all these happened here in just a little of a century ....

 

I hope not to bother you with my silly expose , just felt it was a good time now, with dogz meeting memo still fresh

PS - By the way , how many of you know that our President in office ' s name is Klaus Werner Johannis ....vestenden Sie , Ja?

[Painless]

Thanks Ovy, it is hard to imagine that much change in such a short time. I know Mrs Ovy was saying that even now you have problems with people from Serbia, Bulgaria, Ukrain, Moldova and Hungary coming over the border, causing trouble then buggering off again.

I hope that you, Maddy and all the hard working decent folks in Romania get some stability and security in the very near future.

[Pooka]

Thanks Ovy, some of us take so much for granted.

[BluBear]

Thanks Ovy, that was an interesting read; I had no idea just how much change your nation has seen over the past century.

Like Pooka says, we 'westerners' often take things for granted, stability etc.

 

It was a pleasure meeting you and Maddy at DUX, I'm just sorry we didn't get enough time to have a proper chat.

 

S~ mate

[DD_Arthur]

 

Sold out by the West to Stalin , together with many other countries, we were invaded by thr Red Army, and forced into Communism, until the fall of Ceausescu.

 

 

 

Fascinating Ovy!  I do know quite a lot about Romanian history so I'm quite aware that most countries of central and eastern europe exchanged one set of jack boots for another in the spring of '45.

 

Not quite sure how you were "sold out" by the west to Stalin.  Do many people in Romania think that way?  The "West" in '45 was basically the US and UK.  By the spring of '45 the only way to stop the Russkies from rolling over eastern europe would have been for people like my dad and his brother to have fought the Red Army.

 

Seems like a big ask for a country exhausted by six years of defying Hitler and helping to liberate our neighbours.

 

 Unfortunately for the peoples of south-east europe they have been squeezed between the Austrians, the Turks and the Russians for the last five hundred years.  Not too much the US or UK could have done about that.

[Ovy]

Thanks ALL for the feed-back...i'm sure you all understood it was meant in the most sincere way , even though we do not want to hear back from the past years- i wonder why? could we have done anything now??

But beware - whom who does know their history might be facing repeating it again...

 

Arthur, one of my most respected historic figure is Sir Winston Churchill...i've been reading quite a bit of his or over his exploits. To all: did you know that he is is the longest MP in history - 60 continous years - and that happened when decency and honour were still most valuable arguments upon electing reps.

Sadly enough , when the Potsdam Conferrence ended , both Roosevelt (dead) and Churchill - no longer you PM , were replaced by others...

In full desperation to end the front against the Japanese, US guys pressed Soviets to enter war against Japs ...agreeing on all ( or almost) the Russkies terms.

Altough it was somehow agreed on Yalta Conferrence that a new world with influence spheres will please Uncle Stalin ( including Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Romania ). The matter was directly agreed over a napkin sketch between Churchil and Stalin..this is not a joke..

But it was the aftermath of Potsdam Conferrence which settled the matter for good... Churchill warned the world about the peril and expansion of the Communism , too late ...

Let's face it honestly: The World was tired and drained after all those bloody war years...what will one do to see his country and countrymen relieved...trading some far off territories ( which are not even belonging to you)

No one to blame ...this is the game ...just that my grandpa died with the firm belief that the Americans will come and save us fro the Reds...Now they ARE here, and the Russians are threating US - i mean us - because of the the American bases established here,

Do you imagine what happens if the russkies even fart toward us??

 

Please try to excuse any possible bad resentments or annoyments set by my reply. We are more smart that others to understand the true and real value of human characters ...one memorable song ,composed by a genius , says it all :IMAGINE

 

Let there be peace!

~S~

[Painless]

I'm sure if I were Romanian or indeed Polish I would see things a little differently Ovy. Some really crappy political compromises were made at the end of WWII in Europe, supposedly with the larger strategic/political long term future issues in mind. I am not at all comfortable with some of them but I, (along with probably all of the other Dogz) have lived as the "golden generation" with no global wars or shortages affecting our day to day lives, relative prosperity and good health. So what do we know ?

[Ovy]

Fortunately it seems we (the common people - just like Paul Young's song) ) nowadays have (some) power.

There are - at least in your part of the world - honest groups putting pressure over our Bolliticians ( like Bob Geldof, U2 etc.)

I am still afraid that The Master Pupeteers are still in charge. Notable succesess have been recordered in some countries , despite their influence , so there is hope ...

As i was saying...please excuse me once again...my belief is that Brexit is simply a politicians way to justify their internal incapacity of maintainig what was once the most advanced social welfare and insurance system. Closing in the borders is not a good idea - refference : in London there are ~300 languages spoken, you were the first to have a (modern) Parliament , abolish slavery and dissolute racism barriers...

Maybe the new generations ( both voters and MPs) forgot that the public ministers are our servants and not the other way round...

 

BTW; don't look at the media coverage of the "coup" in Turkey...all silent here...nothing will budge without the Yanks agreement ...think at the nuclear stock here...

 

Yes, sorry Chris, you're younger than 50 ) - DON'T MIND IT PLEASE

[Ovy]

@Mick: Countries emprisoned behind The Iron Curtain ( as W. Churchill called it)

- new Poland ( ex Poland was chopped to the East by Russians and to the West by DDR)

- ex- Czechoslovakia

- ex- Yugoslavia

- Hungary

- Romania

-Bulgaria

- Lithuania

- Letonia

- Latvia

 

I imagine it is evenj more sad to think at least Poles and Czechs who fought directly under British Flag to be left apart..

 

Starnge enough , just quoting again what i regard as the greatest politician ever ( sorry if i am not accurate )

 

" He have fought 5 years with immense prejudice to take Poland from the Germans only to give it away to the Russians"

 

W.C.

[DD_Arthur]

 

Altough it was somehow agreed on Yalta Conferrence that a new world with influence spheres will please Uncle Stalin ( including Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Romania ). The matter was directly agreed over a napkin sketch between Churchil and Stalin..this is not a joke..

 

 

By the time of the D-Day landings the Russians had expelled the Germans from the whole of the Soviet Union and were racing into Poland and the Balkans.  By this rate of advance it was evident they would overrun all of eastern europe by the following winter - as indeed they did.  This horrified Churchill.  He understood exactly what Stalin was. Churchill pressed for an immediate invasion of Germany to bring about an early surrender and thus halt the progress westward of the Soviet armies.

 

This desire produced the Anglo-American airborne invasion of the the lower Rhine crossings at Arnhem in September.  An attempt at a lightning strike across the north German plain to capture Berlin.  Unfortunately it was defeated and so in October Churchill flew to Moscow in the hope that the diplomacy of realism could secure what the paratroopers had failed to win.

 At a meeting with Stalin in the Kremlin on 9th. October Churchill asked him directly "How would it do for you to have ninety percent predominance in Rumania, for us to have ninety percent of the say in Greece, and go fifty-fifty about Yugoslavia?"

 

Churchill sketched out these figures on paper,  adding 50-50 for Hungary and 25-75 Bulgaria.  Stalin "took his blue pencil and made a large tick upon it, and passed it back to us".  Stalin also agreed that after the war Britain would be the leading Mediterranean power.

 

Notice - significantly - that there was no mention of Germany, Czechoslovakia or Poland?  Churchill understood they were lost.  There would be no practical way of preventing Soviet occupation in 1945 just as there was no practical way to stop the German occupation of 1939.  However, Greece was saved from Soviet occupation, Yugoslavia was allowed to go its own way and the threat of Soviet influence upon the immediate post-war politics of Italy was removed.

 

Could he have done more?  Its difficult to see what else he could have done.    

[Ovy]

Absolutely right ! We can only hope our rulers will never forget that and not allow repetition.

Just some personal thoughts over Greece and Yugoslavia:

- Greece was way too important for NATO to accept losing such a strategic place , even though Russians tried what is called "export of revolution" the Army quickly reacted (see Turkey also)

- not to be forgotten that Randolph Churchill fought side by side literally with Tito for a couple of years, ensuring a bond which was to last until his death. Tito promised his comunism will never be conducted from Moscow and kept his word

Ah, one more thing - both countries never had direct border with the Bear...

 

A parallel between Yalta and Malta is clearly visible , since you know more than me...when the big boys agree to share their toys there's nothing the little ones can do. Or is it?

~S~