on-line convergence settings

[Friar]

playing last night (thursday 23rd) it was suggested to me that i should set convergence on the 109 to 1000m.

should i extend all convergence (inc wing mounted guns) when playing on line?

i currently have machine gun and cannon set to 200m

[delta7]

I have nose mounted cannon and m/c at 1000m e.g. Bf109s

wing mounted cannon at 500m e.g Spits

wing mounted m/c at 300m e.g hurricanes

If I have nose and wing cannon e.g. FW 190 I set to 500m but some recommend 600 or 700m

If you set the nose guns lower the trajectory falls low- the longer range gives flatter trajectory.

The wing guns settings are closer as they fire in a x pattern so need closer to ensure more hits

The m/c guns closer still to make up for lack of firepower.

200m is ok offline for fighters but youll probable get shot down a lot with sniper bomber gunners if you are getting that close so increasing it might help.

Online there is always slight packet loss so the plane you are targeting isnt quite where you see it.- give it that 1/4 ring extra lead also helps me

here are two helpful articles

http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_fwgunnery.htm

and here is my article and practice missions

http://www.airwarfare.com/guides/snapshot.htm

hope this helps

p.s if you ever work out how to hit with 30mm cannons please let me know :oops: the slow rate of fire and lobbed flight path means I cant hit anything with these

[B16Enk]

I've been increasing my convergence steadily, I too started out at 200 before I decreased it (thinking it would help lol).

My convergence is now at 600, and I think it still needs to go out as Dave suggested.

The ground pounding mission demonstrated to me again that I need to increase it, when shooting at AA I saw that my rounds were striking at a distance greater than my convergence, ie the rounds were scattered and straddled the target.

This showed me that I tend to open up further away than I thought, and that my accuracy wasn't actually that bad!

By increasing as I have I discovered the added benefit of improved marksmanship!

[Friar]

do those settings apply off line as well, or is it only online to account for the lag?

[delta7]

i use them both offline and online. I lead more online to compensate for packet loss

[Friar]

many thank gents, i think that it is going to be really helpful. i have printed off the texts and downloaded the sniper s/sheet.

looks like i've now got plenty of interesting papers to read up on at lunchtimes! :shock: (shame i cant play and try them out!)

[delta7]

Glad to help - my strike rate is still too low as I still tend to fire too early- Iv got to try to control this better and only shoot when certain.

Im also going thro a bad patch just now where I cant seem to judge deflection and Im stalling out too much so I need to work some more on my stick settings and concentrate on smooth inputs.

BTW if Rog improves any more then ill be ordering extra armour and invisable paint to give me a chance to bail when he nails me or escape

[Tonar]

I increased my range to 900 and my hits doubled. Hits mind you, not kills.

[JensenPark]

holy cow guys...

I have mine set at 250 - and go to 275 occassionally.

realism aside of course - everything I've read on the forums says to keep it in close.

I'll try further out and goon around a bit today for fun...see how it goes.

As for the 30's...just get super-collision close, fire, and fly through the debris...

[Waldo.Pepper]

500 across the board here.

[Quazi]

I don't think they would be effective that far out. If you guys are doing this to compensate for your piloting ablities, well, that makes sense. But I don't think there is a pilot among you all that need to compenstate for anything because you are already good enough pilots to get as close as you want to before opening up.

But if you are doing this and still getting in close before opening up, then I am sorry and read this thread wrong. I mean if setting convergence to 1000m and getting inside of 200m before opening up gets me more effective hits, then I'll give this a shot myself.

[Waldo.Pepper]

Well I listened to the audio commentary that was posted (by BG [was it?]) , specifically about the topic of gun convergence at high distances.

1. It was stated that this will give the gunfire coming from the gun a flatter trajectory for a longer range. (I just listened to it again an he said straighter... but I think he meant flatter.)

My opinion is that this is not so. In the game when I set my convergence I am setting a spot where I want all the rounds to pass through. I have heard a WW2 vet describe how he set convergence so that all six of his guns would pass through a circle about the size of a 50cent piece about 300 yards. Now if that is my goal then I would have to adjust the positioning of all my guns in both the horizontal AND the vertical plane. So (if you follow me here) If I were to set my convergence to a 1000m then to do that I would have to elevate my guns so that they were pointing more upwards that if I were to set my convergence at 100m. Because the rounds are set to converge at 1000m they will be affected by gravity through more time [longer] before they get to the point of convergence, than if my point of convergence were closer. A pilot who sets his convergence at 1000m is in effect throwing his football for the long bomb. His bullets are describing that (high lobbing) arc.

Watch this clip (4 meg wmv file.) To see how much latitude the American's (at least allowed) Once again I am using rapidshare (may as well chew up their bandwidth rather than ours!)

http://rapidshare.de/files/16606221/Con ... e.wmv.html

Note also that the vet described setting convergence for EACH PAIR OF GUNS on the typical US six gun fighter. An option we DO NOT enjoy!

2. It was stated that setting convergence at great distance is unrealistic.

I would agree with this. However, I wold also point out that I find it more realistic to do this that to fly with icons on. I feel this icons on business leads to 1000m convergence and other irregularities. If icons were turned off you would have to get close enough to visually ID the bogies FAR MORE OFTEN before you opened fire! Those pilots who do not visually ID the bogies end up dying because they wipe out there own guys and end up getting shot down themselves.

Even so with my convergence set at 500m if any of you have watched me when I shoot you will notice that I like to get to UNDER a 100M.

There is another consideration that often is not taken into consideration with IL2 That is round speed. If you hit anything at great distance it does FAR LESS DAMAGE that if you hit it a close range. (even with cannon rounds, as the cannon round will penetrate further into the target aircraft the closer you are when you hit it (due to the higher velocity of the round).

Consider this from the IL2 Manual (FB page 12)...

Aerial Gunnery

Many factors work against you when you fire.First of all, your bullets don’t fly in a perfectly straight line. Your plane shakes in the air, your guns recoil and twist, Earth’s gravity pulls the bullets toward the ground, and the air slows them down. All of these things combine to create something called bullet dispersion. A bullet stream from one machine gun at 50 meters will fit into an area fifty times as small as the same bullet stream at 500 meters. This makes long-range fire extremely difficult. Keep in mind that bullets lose power over distance. Using the same example, a bullet at 50 meters can puncture light to medium armor, but at 500 meters it may even bounce off human skin.Secondly, most targets you encounter will be armored. Some plane shave armor strong enough to deflect any bullets or shells you fire;your ammunition will bounce off your target without doing any damage. However, no airplane has the same thick armor all over.Even the heaviest armored airplane has some weak spots, where just a few hits can be enough to bring it down.

In my opinion.

[Quazi]

One thing about setting the convergence that far out, and then getting close in to your target before opening up, may very well allow one to hit two seperate areas of the bogeys ac rather than two bullets meeting together in one spot on an enemy bogey. This may or may not be helpful. And I would think one would have to place the gunsight a little below the target as convergences set as far as 1000m would mean that when fired, the bullets would take a more upward angle instead of a closer convergence such as 200m when bullets fire would take more of a straight out or flatter trjectory. I mean I'd love to be on the 6 of a two engine ac and have the bullets fired from the guns in my left wing to hit the left engine, and the same with the right. I may have to test this theiry in the QMB.

[B16Enk]

Online I find my current convergence of around 600 (can't recall off-hand) seems to be very effective.

Sunday night it helped with deflection shots as well as straight six ones.

When ground pounding in the Tempest it still surprises me how 'soon' the rounds converge, and again how far off I like to open up.

When chasing a slippery eel of a bogey I find I can land shots more accurately from 500 than 200, largely because it is easier to match lift vector to the bogey when one 'stands off' that much. I rarely intend to close below 300.

If I am close on their 6 it becomes more difficult to follow and predict the path of my target, and as I find my rounds are still pretty effective at the ranges at which I fire...I have seen one or two planes fall victim

One mission in a Hurri I was able to severely pepper the port wing on an HE111, enough to down it. Seeing the bullet strikes lighting up was pretty cool.

The AI rear gunner taking out my engine was predictable however (straight 6 attacks on HE111 are more than a little foolish!).

[delta7]

I agree with what Quazi and Waldo.pepper have written - it is unrealistic, that in real life most good shots had their convergencies at 250m and below - BUT - in this game I have found that for nose guns such as on the Bf 109 1000m gives me more sucess on line- and that with wing guns I get better results at 500m - 700m

I also agree about the hitting power decreasing with range- it seems to me that the german guns hit ok at the longe range but that the Spitfires like to be shorter- I cant comment on american 50s as I rarely fly these.

I still cant work out the flight and convergence of the 30mm so this eludes me.

I dont think Im that bad in flying a 109 so poor flying isnt the reason for this , Ill admit to being not a very good shot and this added to the peculiarities of aircraft LODs and online play makes the longer range work for me - even tho I try to make sure that I dont hold concentrated fire unless plane is max of 200m ( plane is 1/2 size of ring ) distance.

To expand a little I fly the 109 on dogfight servers and so tend to BnZ and find that the bandit aircraft appears slower until LOD changes ( turns from dot to airplane shape) then seem to accelerate- this is typically just around the fireing solution so I try to fire an initial burst just after this happens and zoom up to see results. If I get sucked into turning fight then I try to hold fire until much closer as the aircraft detail is now better.

On co-ops I fly more relaxed and its more fun so will stick in around the furball to help mates or engage mates etc

So IMHO convergence is personal and might even change from plane to plane for you- it does for me- I have put in lots of time offline and online trying to find my settings and can only suggest you try moving it out and see if it works for you guys.

~s~