Cold_Gambler

I applied Conservative Party of Canada accounting techniques and told her it would cost only half of what it actually did. You'll note that I selected components that can be upgraded on the same mobo (the next Intel chip "Ivy Bridge" is supposed to be a 1155-pin chip and I'll be able to buy another 6970 with my slush-fund money and install it under cover of darkness).

Glad that worked for you too, FT I'm going to tackle the 74 GB Raptor issue next. If I can't get it to work quickly, I'm not going to kill myself trying. It'd be nice to get it functioning but the 450GB Velociraptor more than takes care of my storage needs, I would mostly like to get the old Raptor working because I hate to have an "old" but perfectly functional component collect dust when I could use it. Something else I've been meaning to mention: the velociraptor seems to get flak in reviews and forums for being a "loud" drive. This has NOT been my experience. In fact, my whole build is much quieter than the old build. Maybe I just lucked out with a particularly solid unit. The loudest components are the DVD drive, on an intermittent basis, and a side chassis fan, on an continuous basis. The CPU, 6970 and VRaptors are very quiet (all on stock fan settings). I have not adjusted any of the fan settings so far, but once everything is ready to be closed up for the long term I am going to use the Asus utility to have the side chassis fan switch on only when a certain temp threshold is met (I haven't done it yet because it's rather tricky to plug that side fan's connection into the MoBo so while I'm taking the side panel on and off I'm not bothering to plug in that side fan). I don't particularly care if my case is loud or not (I usually wear headphones and I value performance over quiet and/or energy savings), but if anyone is considering a quiet build, my suggestion would be not to rule out the Velociraptor as a component based on it's alleged "noisiness". All in all, very happy with the build. Now all I need to do is convince my almost 6-yr-old son that Power Rangers: Super Legends is a boring game and not worth installing on the "new computer"!

Well, I've got RoF up and running and it looks stunning! Just gorgeous with all the bells and whistles running and smmmmmmmmmmooooooooth as butter.... It was great before but it's a real feast for the eyeballs. I got an easy OC to 4.3 on stock Intel cooler with temps showing 47 C shortly after closing out of an extended RoF session (though I suspect they peaked higher ingame as I noticed that the temperature was dropping off surprisingly fast once I'd gone back to the desktop. I haven't bothered OC'ing the graphics card as there just doesn't seem to be a need to do so Also, figured out the last of the double-start flakiness: I googled around and it's a bit of a common problem with this board once the TPU switch has been thrown. The solution that has worked for me was to disable the PLL voltage thingymabob in the bios. I haven't timed it, but it feels like I get to the desktop in about 30 seconds which is about half to one-third the time it took with the old components.... Happy is I

LOL! It's a rat's nest in there! Because the PSU in the CM690 is at the bottom of the case the power cable to the CPU is just 2 inches too shot, so I had to route it over the 6970. Because the GPU is so huge, the additional 2 PCI USB 3.0 cable can't go around it, so it's routed over the 6970 as well... The 6970 has a 6-prong power connector AND an 8-prong power connector (I think my electricity meter must turn twice as fast as soon as I start gaming). My PSU didn't have an extra 8-pronger so I had to use the solution that came with the 6970 (use two rails and plug them both into a connector for an 8-pronger. That's a whopping mess hanging off the GPU as well! Doesn't really matter in the end I don't think. The case is big and I have 3 large case fans. CPU temp sits around 37 C on the stock intel fan which is fine; I'll see how things go once I start OCing and if I need an aftermarket CPU heatsink. Once I'm sure it's all in for the long haul (the 74GB raptor connector might have to be moved) I'll tie off the GPU power cables as they're really pretty ugly. I haven't got IL2 loaded up yet. RoF is but I haven't tried it yet (no time / too lazy to reconfigure everything) but Empire Total War is maxed out, smooth as butter and the battles load up in less than half the time so I'm very impressed on that score. I'll get around to finding out how much the shipping will be on the different donation parts soon... but I'm leaving town on vacation on Thursday so I'm afraid Arthur and you may have to wait a little longer for your parts... Angus

I thought you guys might be curious as to how my new build went, so here goes. Components: Asus P8P67 Pro i5 2500k AMD 6970 2 X 4 GB G-Skill RipJaws DDR3 1600 8-8-8-24 Win7 First off, I was surprised at how well this build went together. All the components went together very easily (partly because the CM 690 case I have is roomy and has all those easy latches so minimal use of a screwdriver is necessary- only for the mobo) Win7 loaded up very quickly and recognized all the peripherals without problem (I still have to DL and install TrackIR), in most instances identifying precisely what peripheral was added. There was a little hitch I haven't entirely resolved. On my prior build I had a 74 GB Raptor as my boot drive; it is SATA 1.5. I plugged it into one of the 3GB SATA ports. For whatever reason it isn't being recognized in the BIOS. This isn't a major problem as the new 450GB velociraptor has been partiitioned into two drives (boot + games and "everything else") so the system runs fine with plenty of spare capacity. At the moment it would appear that I may have put it into the wrong SATA port and that I need to either move it or get into the Marvell utility and tweak some settings. Not a high priority but best to resolve the issue; at the very least it will eliminate one step in troubleshooting any potential future problems... A more annoying problem occurred after I got my second monitor (an 18" ViewSonic VG800) attached and working as extended desktop with CCC. I had forgotten that my main monitor (the 25.5" VX2640W) went into sleep mode. Apparently there's a bug in many pre-2008 ViewSonic monitors where if a DVI and a D-SUB monitor are both attached and go into sleep mode, the monitor's software for the DVI post doesn't come out of sleep mode. I had this problem on my previous rig and eventually the ViewSonic Tech support was able to walk me through a solution. I tried the solution which I remembered fairly well but it didn't work this time due to an unfortunate second problem which arose, unbeknowst to me. After I had the rig up and running (prior to going multimonitor), I switched the TPU switch of the motherboard to on. TPU is supposed to be used with Asus' auto-overclocking function. Perhaps because I didn't have the ASUS software suite installed at the time this resulted in some "flaky" behaviour. On starting the rig up, it would fire up then power down and then power up again normally. I ignored this and proceeded on. After I had the VX2640W lock up on me, I had to shut the rig off by powering off. When I turned the machine back on, I couldn't get the VX or the VG going and I put this down to the ViewSonic bug. I spent about 2 hours trying to get them to work with the ViewSonic solution but got nowhere. I tried removing one DDR stick, I swapped vid cards, I tried every permutation of monitor and resetting, I reverted the TPU switch back to off. No go for anything. ViewSonic support gave me their standard list of troubleshooting (check cables, yada yada) but none of those worked. They finally gave me an RMA #. I decided to try something new. I borrowed my neighbour's ancient CRT to see what would happen. That didn't show anything either... not even the bios post. Clearly something was wrong at a very basic level. So I decided to try clearing the CMOS. Well, that did it! Once I swapped the jumper back and forth I got a nice Bios Post and everything was peachy. Just to confirm that the bios posting problem was due to the TPU switch I turned off the machine, moved the TPU switch and powered up. The 1st time it did it "fake first start" flakiness but started. The second time I powered up it didn't post the Bios at all and I had to clear the CMOS again to get it to post again. A-HA. So the problem was initially ViewSonic, but after that the TPU switch was to blame. Very frustrating, but all good in the end. The TPU switch isn't necessary for overclocking as that can still be done manually (haven't tried it yet) so I'm not too concerned. I haven't got much loaded yet, but it looks like it's going to be a solid build now. Cheers all, Angus

OK folks, the VRaptor came in this morning (most impressed by Newegg, I am), so I'm going to be putting the new build together in the next few days. As it stands, Arthur will be getting the E8400 and TOAD is getting the 2X1 GB Ram. That leaves the Mobo and 2 X 4850s. A fellow, callsign Bandy, over on the SimHQ board has expressed an interest to use them to build his son a rig, but you guys get first dibs... so let me know soon if you're interested. Cheers all, C_G

Done! Best of luck to Brette and her fiancé

As I noted in the other thread, I'm just waiting on the velociraptor (should arrive by Friday at the latest), so it looks like I'll be putting the new build together over the weekend. Unless I hear from somebody about wanting more than one component, the E8400 and RAM are yours. I agree that you don't need the mobo and I'm pretty sure the GTX460 is better than 2X 4850s. The postal strike is still on here, but there are plenty of other options. There's a Purolator outlet in my office building so I could get a precise quote for air vs. ground shipping to the UK. Just glad to help a fellow dog out

Thanks guys Just waiting on the velociraptor now. I've backed up the main files I want to transfer over onto a portable HDD so I'm pretty much ready to start taking out the "old" components and putting together the new beast. As I noted, just the GPU upgrade to the old rig has been a huge boost so I have great expectations for this new build. Angus

Generally I've been hearing good things about Win7 and it doesn't seem to be possible to hold onto XP with new hardware anymore so I'm off to the brave new world soon. As I recall, CloD wasn't working for you until you did your upgrade from XP, right Dave?

Rueful LOL... Too late, I've bought the RAM in anticipation of using the full 8GB and Vista is now a dead duck so it's definitely Win 7 for me now (esp. since it's been bought and paid for now). Angus

Hey Arthur I'm not sure an e8400 is much of an upgrade from the e6600. Bit of a bigger cache, and a bit higher clock but I dunno. Anyway, your call as to whether it's worth the postage. If you don't mind I'll wait until the new rig is built to give others the chance to check it this post and get in touch with me if they're interested. If there are no takers I'm happy to find out how much it will be to ship it to the UK. Hopefully by then the postal strike here will be resolved. As for the family, we're stopping at 3. We've done our duty at keeping the national birthrate up. In 4 years (! Wahhhhhh!) I should be upgrading again and ready to rock with you guys again. Just the GPU upgrade has been awesome, I can't wait to see what it'll be like on similarly matched hardware! Post Edit reply: if you're running an e6600 at the moment I'm pretty sure it should also take an e8400 so you may not want my mobo (it's not bad, just disappointing for overclocking) which would make it a very easy upgrade as all you'll have to do is take off the e6600 and ram and slap in the new components onto the mobo you already have, flick the onswitch and there you go... I'm happy to throw in the 4850s at no extra charge

I'm putting together a new rig. Up to now I've been using XP but for this build I'm moving to Win 7 64 bit. Rig: Asus P8P67 pro i5 2500k ATI 6970 2 X 4GB DDR3 Win 7 on 450 GB velociraptor. Peripherals: Logitech wireless keyboard + mouse TIR 3 + Vector MSFFB2 CH Throttle CH Pedals Logitech rumble game pad I'm not going to be trying to "upgrade" from XP; this is going to be a clean install. I'm not expecting any problems, but is there anything I might want to watch out for? Thanks, Angus

Got the HIS 6970 on Friday so I pulled out the 4850s and slapped the 6970 into my old rig. I'm able to max out eye candy in RoF with just a bit of stuttering at the beginning of a mission memory use is 65%. Empire Total War is also maxed out (except some graphic features I don't care for "depth of field" and "heat effect")... should have done this upgrade sooner. Once the 6970 is in the new rig it's going to be AWESOME! I have most of the new components but I ordered a i5 2500 and not a i5 2500k.... oops. Fortunately the folks at Newegg were very good about it (since it's not even open) and issued a RMA# at full refund; I've now got a 2500k coming in. Once I get the velociraptor and 2500k I'll be ready to begin to operate on the new frankenstein.

The parts for my new build are coming in now so I'll be giving away the following components within the next week or so: 2 X 4850s (can be crossfired on appropriate board such as the foxconn). 1 Foxconn P38A (iirc) mobo 1 E8400 (overclocks, but not all that well on the foxconn, in my opinion the mobo was the limiting factor) 2 X 1GB DDR3 ram sticks (I forget the precise specs, but they have heatspreaders and are decent). I have all the original boxes and manuals etc. and can provide more specs on request (going off memory for the above). Basically, there are all the core components for a slightly obsolescent but still decent machine; the only part I found disappointing was the mobo as it never gave me much of an overclock compared to what others have been able to squeeze out of the e8400). I can either ship it all together (my preference) or part it out. Recipient pays shipping; I'm located in Toronto, Canada. Cheers, Angus (C_G)

Hi Jim, I will certainly try, if only to brag about how my new 1337 machine is burning up the fps with all the eye-candy on The fact of the matter is that I really don't have much time. When I game it's often offline RoF or Empire Total War between 11 p.m. and 1 a.m. I've been sorely tempted to fly with the RoF DDz meets on Fridays but so far have been unable to make it. Sébastien is turning 6, Gisèle is going on 3 in a week, and Dawn has a boy-bun in the oven due in November (!)... so the fact of the matter is that while I'm really dying to get online with you guys, it's very hard to find the time between the household chores and getting the kids to bed etc... to eke out much putzing on the computer time Nah.. He's just doing this to get his pron in HD at last.. LOL... I just read that Pron consumer demand is the primary driver of much tech innovation!

I just ordered the mobo, CPU and Win 7 64 bit from Newegg.ca. I already have the 6970 on the way and 2X4GB DDR3 ram in my hands. All that's missing is the 450GB velociraptor. I'm probably going to pick it up from a local store since Newegg doesn't have it here in Canada. The 6970 was in the US and still isn't here after a week (I think some guys in the Purolator warehouse in B.C. are testing it out for me). Once I get all the components I'm not going to want to wait another week for the HDD- paying $10 more is worth it to me to get the build together faster. Everything is going to go into my CM 690 case. Woohoo! New upgrade here I come Edit: once the credit card comes out it's hard to put away. I just ordered the 450 velociraptor @ Future Shop online. P.S. I'm surprised by the prices posted at NCIX these days, which is why I bought all the other components at Newegg. I first priced all the components at NCIX and then compared to Newegg only to see that I could save $170 before taxes going with Newegg. The velociraptor was $50 cheaper @ Future Shop than NCIX and only $10 more than Newegg... Anyway, once all the parts come in (the receiving dept guys at work are gonna love me, LOL) I can start putting this puppy together.

You’ve got water as well, which could become more valuable than oil. And why shouldn’t the Canadian government have F-35s. After all, you have at least two F-35s your self. Canada should at least be able to achieve Air Parity on the boarder between Canada and the Grand Duchy of Blairgowrie. A-HA! BG's true intentions are revealed! Now I understand why he's been buying all those centrifuges and has a truck fleet running between Elliot Lake and his "residence"...

Sharkbait OO-HA-HA !

Thanks Rog (and Jabo) for your help, especially with respect to the SSD issue. My understanding is that the p8p67 pro has SATA 6. So I'll most likely go for a 450GB 32MB buffer Sata 6 velociraptor. Unless anyone pipes up with a concern about the mobo or has a suggestion with respect to a better board, I'll be going with the Asus P8P67 pro rev.3. The build list is now complete. All I have to do is order the parts and find the time to get the kids out of my hair for several hours!

A quick update... prompted by RoF's newly released patch I've just ordered the first two components for the new build: - a HIS 6970 2 GB vidcard, in about 2 years' time I'll buy a second one and cross-fire it; I didn't feel like buying a 6950 and flashing it - 2X4 gig of DDR3 1600 (8-8-8-20) Ram. I got these two now because I can pop them straight into my current rig for an immediate performance boost, and because the 6970 came out to $309 after rebates. I know that the RAM is going to mostly go to waste on my current rig. As for the other items, I've pretty much decided on getting: i5 2500k p8p67 pro (any other suggestions?), and a velociraptor for the boot and games drives. Is there much difference in performance between Sata 3 and Sata 6, and between 16MB and 32 MB buffers? If there is, the price difference could be justified for me... Thanks very much for your input! C_G

I'm so enthused by the improvements they've made that I decided to fill out the hangar with the remaining aircraft I didn't have and all the field mods. While I'm not crazy about the "nickel and diming" business model; I understand the business realities facing small studios like 777. If Jason Williams hadn't stepped in as an investor a year and a half ago and bought out NeoQB, RoF would have died, simple as that. There just isn't a mass market for hi-fidelity flight sims. To date I've only bought those additions that I was really interested in, and waited for a 50% off sale to do so. This struck, for me, a reasonable balance between cost and content. Today I purchased all the outstanding items not because I'm likely to use them all that much but because I feel that they've earned it through the creation of the new content and upgrades made. The new content is sufficiently substantive to have justified a new package and a $45 price tag. The amount of work which went into creating the new aircraft and the campaign is palpable. At this point the only thing that I can think of that needs some work is the AI. I hope that releasing a RoF with a very limited plane set will bring in those last few hold-outs who have not yet checked it out.

3 and 6 months!?! Good to know. Certainly a single Raptor would be simplest; but I'm quite tempted to go the two raptors in Raid 0 (it is well within my budget)... I just wish I could get some solid data on what kind of difference the three options would actually result in. Thanks, C_G

Back onto the SSD vs. Raid O issue... The more I read up, the more I'm confused.... This guy *appears* to demonstrate pretty persuasively that a single SSD is a better performer in I/O than Raid 0: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=248560 While on Anandtech, this article (albeit from 2004) suggests that there's little read world benefit to a Raid 0 set-up (or, at best, only a 20% increase in performance): http://www.anandtech.com/show/1371 Then these Dutchmen take issue with Anandtech: http://tweakers.net/reviews/515/1/raid-0-hype-or-blessing-raid-0-hype-or-blessing.html Is it a matter of the size of the data being accessed (i.e. if huge volumes, SSD rules but marginal improvement over Raid 0 and single HDD if the files are small)? Do games really require much writing to storage? I would have thought they mainly read with only comparatively small writes... I'd really like to make the right choice with this build as I'll be "stuck" with this rig for the next while... Confused_Gambler.