Cold_Gambler

Here's a picture of all the parts and the layout: It's hard to make out the comments I made, so I'm re-writing them here. The green circle are buttons of Column 1 Row 1-5. The popsicle sticks (or something like) will eventually look like the "paddle" triggers on many bombers (Beaufighter, etc.). The button has a nice solid "click" sound and sensation to it. The square ones will be on the top and bottom, and the two red and blue round ones will be on the facing... for no other reason than because it's much easier to cut square holes out of the edge of the yoke, and easier to drill round holes out of the flat facing. The blue and orange circles are symmetrical. As you can see, I've already drilled it out for the large red buttons and the for the smaller black ones. The large red ones are going to be the trickiest to install because of how they extend inside the hollow top button triggers. For this reason I'd simply like to replace them but my son has "convinced" me it would not be as cool without those two buttons ... We'll see. It works as it is, but I'm not so convinced it will once I've wired/soldered them up - I may have to be an "uncool dad" for the sake of getting them to work. The hole between the red and black buttons is where a screw holding the yoke handle goes. The two little switches are going to be put next to each other, but facing opposite directions, so that a forward motion will trigger one, a backward motion the other, with the possibility of triggering both... That's the theory anyway. Other than that, on the right is the BU0836 unit. I don't fancy soldering in tight spaces (and those little prong thingies count for me) so I wanted some way to have an attachement with wires that I could solder to with space to spare. I first tried an old HDD IDE cable which fit but would need some cutting down (only need 6 of the 38 pins), but when I tried tracing the IDE cable with a battery and toy flashlight bulb,only pin 1 (the blue) and Pin 2 seemed to correspond further along. Pin 3 and it's opposite pin 4 didn't. Scrapped that plan and found these shielded cables from my old "I'll save this, you never know when I might need it" box... They're 8 pins leading to 6 pins (the 6 pin end didn't fit... I think they came from motherboards past), the 8 pin ends are a good fit (just had to excato knife some plastic). I stripped them and I just soldered on the extra wire to them tonight. I shortened the 2 extra wires (they were for the shielding) but will leave at least two (i.e. 7 pins) as they could be used for the 5v in future. In any case the extra 2 useless pins don't take much space. On the left is the 50-wire telephone cable.... all different colours which is going to be very useful as with 16 different wires it is likely to get very confusing once I get started Tomorrow I hope to be able to cut the holes for all the remaining buttons, buy a glue gun to fix the buttons in position, and maybe start wiring.... can't solder when the kids (almost 6 and 3) are around. Still haven't found a plastic L bracket for the yoke, it's looking more and more like I'm going to have to fabricate one... Anyway, I hope you've enjoyed this little update. It feels like real progress to me, even though it looks like a complete mess. Quick question: The pots in place have three prongs. Currently they've only got two wires attached... can I leave them that way? It seems I should have three wires (Ground, input, and 5 v+). The middle one is input, and I assume that the other presently attached is 5v+, is Ground necessary? Cheers, C_G

"what happens at the CH factory when the lights are off..."

FT, I've found looking at your wiring to be really helpful. I notice that your axes only use a relatively small arc. How many turns do your pots have (the ones I have are, iirc, 3/4 of a turn, but your controls only seem to offer ~ 1/4 to 1/3 of a turn (45 degrees and and a bit more) has this impacted on precision or is this easily compensated for during software calibration? Thanks, C_G

Hi FT, I mis-read Bodnar's site. So long as momentary switches are used, there's no need to use diodes so you're fine ... and so am I since I'm only using momentary switches too. One less thing to go wrong, hurray!.

Quick update. The BU0836 has finally arrived. Yay!! I've also collected a large selection of buttons and determined general placement. (pics to come) The first thing I'm going to do is attach the existing 4 pots and buttons to the BU0836 to determine if they're still function properly. If they don't it will be a simple matter of replacing them with new ones. I have not yet found a suitable plastic L bracket to correct the slop issue. I've found metal L brackets, but as the metal would likely strip the square central shaft causing even greater problems down the road I'm not going to use that,. I also have not found a suitable metal/plastic square tube, so I'm not going to go that route. At this point I think my best option is going to be to fabricate my own L bracket from plastic available at a local hobby shop. I've also considered using the plastic from an old CD. At this point in time, my plan is: 1- to upgrade the existing pots and buttons of the yoke, 2- to add a whole slew of new momentary switches to the yoke (for a total of 15 or so) . 3- to create a generic cessna-style mini-panel with the four remaining BU0386 axes remaining: Throttle + Mixture + Prop pitch on slider pots actuated by simple push-rods + 1 rotary pot (not sure of function yet), The mini-panel will also have the remaining 15-17 buttons for miscellaneous functions. Ideally the mini-panel will be relatively low profile and attach to the top of the yoke without going above the top of the yoke handles when they are in the neutral position. I would have preferred to have the Throttle/Mixt/ prop pitch pushrods off to the right of the yoke (outside of the movement arc of the yoke handle), but this would make the unit as a whole too large for my taste. I have minimal experience with electronics. The last time I touched a soldering iron was 5 years ago when I made an "active IR" source for my TrackIR1 unit. None of the above is particularly complicated, but I do have some quick questions for you guys: a- Given the number of momentary buttons I'm adding to the yoke, I'm going to use the thinnest wire I can find because the wires have to go throuth the yoke shaft. I assume that this is OK given that there's very little current, is this a safe assumption? b- I've never used diodes in a circuit before. I'll need to since I'm using more than 12 buttons... where should I place them? Given the space restrictions, I can't place them in the handles, but there should be space within the yoke casing. I'd like to keep the wiring as tidy as possible. Cheers, Angus

Yes, bolts would be a better idea than screws. Too small a hole and I might crack the plastic, too large and the screw doesn't have anything to "bite" into... I hope to find some suitable materials this weekend if I can get to a hardware store. I'm hoping to find some small nylon brackets of some sort. I'll keep you posted

Hi Shadrach, I don't think the slop at the full out position is due to uneven wear on the square shaft. Rather, the lack of slop in the full in position is due to the fact that in that position the "front end" of the shaft is entirely within the round retaining portion of the main shaft and therefore has a lot of stability. Interesting that you think there's a good chance of finding a square tube within a tight tolerance of the square shaft. Ultimately, that's likely to be the best long-term solution and certainly worth exploring. If a square tube with a tight tolerance with respect to the square shaft can be found, then it may not be necessary to close off the minigap, so long as the space between the tube and the shaft is smaller than the "minigap". If a tight tolerance could be found, then I could carefully sand two sides of the square shaft until I have just enough of a gap. and then lubricate the two with some graphite powder or other lubricant (would graphite powder affect the pots)? In other news, the BU0836 still has not arrived. I hope it's not stuck in some warehouse for payment of duties... I can still move forward on looking for a suitable tube and material for the end bracket in the meantime. C_G

Hi Shadrach, I think that's a great point. An L shape with half-moons would probably work best as I won't have to worry about tolerances re: the size of the square hole. Just position the L for a snug fit and fix it. Incidentally, my suspicions that there aren't 2 rings were correct: the square end is attached to the round shaft which slips inside the round main shaft. This means that the "slop" is worse at the full out position (elevator up) and non existent when full in. Had the main shaft been molded solid through the "square" portion of the shaft the slop would not have developed as the stress would have been distributed throughout the whole shaft rather than at the stress point of the square hole. So one other possibilit would be to look for a tight tolerance square tube, but I fear that is something of a pipe dream (haha). Gents, your input has been really helpful, thanks! Now to search for a suitable material from which to make the L.

Looking at the pictures, another possible solution has occurred to me: given that there is a "notch" in the square apperture, another option would be to attach a "rail" length wise to the square shaft end. The difficulty, however, would be to attach the rail to the shaft end. I think Brandon's solution is probably the easier of the two solutions to implement....

Hi Brandon, thanks very much for the input! I'm not sure if there is a second "ring" up front. I suspect that there isn't (though I haven't taken the shaft mechanism apart), I believe that the main shaft (starts off round and is retained at the front by the round sleeve at the front (which itself is held in position by the casing). You are correct that the aperture does not extend down the length of the shaft; it is merely 1.5 mm in length (i.e. the thickness of the plastic comprising the shaft). Your suggestion of creating an additional "plate" with a square hole that more closely brackets the square shaft end is a good one. And I think I will implement it. Thanks. I would likely attach it to the existing plate with screws/bolts as you suggest. Fortunately, as you can see, there's an overhang of the ring over the plate so I've got a bit of leeway to play with before travel is restricted. It may also be possible to place the additional plate on the inside of the shaft if travel is an issue. My next step will be to take apart the shaft to make sure there isn't some other solution, but given that the problem is the minigap caused by wear on the square hole I think adding a new shaft hole plate will be the solution. Thanks again, Angus

Hi Brando, here are the pictures: The outside, looks a little "toy-like" but has a solid feel to it. It's a much darker grey than it appears in these first pictures. The center (where the W is) is largely empty and has space to accomodate pots or switches. There is also sufficient space in the handles under the index and ring fingers to place a button. If the buttons on the top for the thumb still work I'll leave them as is and simply reroute the wiring, otherwise I may consider installing a hat switch on one side. The inside, general view. Plenty of clearance on the top to add some switches or rotary pots, will just have to have well secured wire routing around the back if I do. Right hand side, innards. This is the pot for the Left-Right rotation axis. The prior owner's repair is apparent... I think we'd get along well since we have similar repair philosophies . The pot adjustment mechanism is clearly visible- because it is analog it requires manual adjustment; once it's been refitted with the Bodnar unit the calibration will be done with software of course and I won't need the knob for that purpose though it could possibly be used as a mechanical trim (freeing up a "virtual" axis). The main shaft. Two rings in yellow plastic at the front are connected by a spring which provides tension and centering, plastic stops on the main shaft (hidden in this picture by the yellow rings) limit R-L rotation by about 30 degs to either side. Similarly, the two springs to the right ofthe pic assure tension and centering in the "in-out" axis. The white gear fixed in the middle of the shaft connects to the white gear attached to the pot on the right hand casing, for the "Left-R" axis. As you can see, the design is fairly simple and the components are made of decently solid material. I don't know what type of plastic it is but it's quite tough. While the white plastic for the gears is hard I think it might be scratched with a screw-driver, the yellow, grey and black parts otoh are very hard and I haven't scratched it . Two pictures of the "minigap". The gap is visible first on the "top" and in the second on the "side". It's very small, about half a millimetre, but because it's so close to the pivot centre it translates into about 4 degrees of "slop" in the center which is annoying. My thoughts at the moment with respect to the minigap is to insert some sort of shim to close it up. My first attempt may simply be to try some duct tape, the "real" duct tape with the alu backing, as this will not provide too much friction and be easy to do. I'm not sure the duct tape could stand up in the longer term though... I hope you have found this interesting. I'm still in the planning phases, so any ideas are more than welcome. I think I'm going to pick up some slider pots and explore the idea of a "cessna" style throttle, mixture, prop pitch pushrod control panel which could be affixed on top/ on the side for FSX fun. Here's hoping my BU0836 comes in the mail tomorrow. The best part is that since it only cost $8, I'm not going to get upset it the minigap problem can't be solved and is a deal breaker; I'll still be able to use the BU0836 and all the switches and pots for a button bay. Angus

As noted in FT's "buttons buttons buttons" thread, I was inspired to buy a Leo Bodnar BU0386 unit. My original motivation was primarily to add three axes for trim by adding the BU0386 with three pots (and a bunch of buttons) to my CH ProThrottle. However, I had yesterday off from work and went with my family to a thrift store near our house. there was a yoke sitting there for $7.99... I've been wanting a yoke for a long time (fo MS FSX and for bomber/P-38 driving), but have always balked at the price tag for both the CH or the Saitek unit. So when I saw the yoke I took a good look at it and decided, since the BU0386 is already on the way, that it might be worth a try refurbishing it with the BU0386. It's an old game port device and has 4 axes: right-left, in-out, "rudder" (though who the heck would find it intuitive to control yaw with a rotatory knob on the side of the casing is beyond me) and "throttle"; and two buttons. It's had a fair bit of use, and the previous owner made two repairs to it: the first is a wire connection he remade and the second is a "bracing" of the "right-left" pot (and pot adjustment mechanism). I've had a chance to open it up and it still looks like a pretty good candidate for refurbishing: -The internal components are built of solid material, and the design is logical. I can see why it only got "chucked" recently. -There's space to add at least 8-10 buttons on the yoke handle without compromising the structural integrity of the unit. -There's space to add pots and/or buttons in the top of the casing, though I may simply create a button bay which I'll then affix to the top of the unit. -I may be able to leave the existing pots in place, if they are still OK and simply connect them to the BU0386. The main pot that is a concern is the "slide" pot as, in my experience, those tend to wear out faster than the rotary pots. Because it's a gameport device I was not able to test it to see if the pots are ok (even with a gameport-USB connector)... If they are WooHoo!, I won't have to take it all apart. There is one problem that I don't think I'll be able to resolve because it's an inherent design issue. The central shaft is square and sits within a larger round shaft with a square hole. The square central shaft is a little smaller (naturally) than the square hole it sits in because the central shaft needs to be able to slide in and out to activate the "in-out" slide pot. The gap between the central shaft and the square hole means that there's a mechanical deadzone when pivoting the yoke from one side to the other until the central shaft touches and turns the larger round shaft to record motion on the "left-right" axis. It seems to me that the "solution" is obvious in theory but much less obvious in implementation. The gap needs to closed by about 0.5 mm, either by making the hole a little smaller (preferably) or by making the shaft a little bigger (but this would have to be done on its whole length, evenly). The gap can't be closed so much as to restrict smoothness of motion, but it has to be closed more than a litte or else a deadzone will remain. I will post pictures of the unit and its internals soon (especially to illustrate the above noted problem). Any thoughts and opinions with respect to this particular project or with respect to the BU0386 are very welcome. Also if anyone can identify the manufacturer of the yoke or the model name I would appreciate it. The only identifying feature is a W on the front and a Quality Control # on the bottom. Cheers, Angus P.S. forgot to mention that the suction cups will have to be replaced with a more suitable solution (likely a braket of some sort with oversized wingnuts to clamp it to the desk). Given the stiffness of the springs used for the "in-out" axis, I'm surprised they ever worked satisfactorily for the previous owner.

Welcome Navy... I think you're going to fit rrrrrrigght in

You guys have inspired me! I just ordered a Leo Bodnar BU0386 (vanilla) and plan to mod my CH Pro Throttle. I haven't figured out the exact configuration I will implement but the main functionality I'm missing at this point are trim wheels... I'm thinking three pots in the rear left side of the base: one on the side for elevator trim, one on the front for rudder trim and one on the top for aileron trim; leaving space for a bunch of low profile buttons either on the top or on the front.. Cheers, C_G

Jim, it's hard to believe but it's been about 8 years since we first connected in 2003 via the Ubi Forums discussing overclocking of our AMD 1700+ CPUs. Since that time the technology has advanced exponentially and so has my sim experience, thanks in large part to you. You were the one who sent me a headset to allow me to TeamSpeak with the West Coast guys and you, joined a little later by JP... You were the driving force every step of the way to getting the DangerDogz where we are today. Taking the initiative and inviting all (no matter how weird and twisted ) to join our disparate gang of fun-loving pilots. You hosted, you gently pushed, you prodded, you made fun of yourself as much as of others setting the tone for congenial online simming. I remember when you first threw out the idea of getting a permanent website, rather than merely sending around e-mails- I didn't think it was a good idea but you were dead-on right and the Dogz have flourished as a result. We all want to leave a mark in this world. Whether it be through changing others' lives, making the world a better place generally, or being remembered for some sort of legacy. You sir, have succeeded in all three in our little sphere. I am sure that you have far greater accomplishments in this world that I have no knowledge of at all. In these times of personal difficulty, I hope that these messages provide you with some measure of hope, satisfaction and joy in knowing that you have changed all our lives in ways large and small. In the end, what I take most from meeting you is an appreciation for quiet leadership. Leadership which doesn't impose itself on others but, rather, considers the opinions of others and makes suggestions taking disparate views into account and emphasizing the commonalities in those views over the contradictions. My thoughts are with you and Helen, Angus A.K.A. the Cold_Gambler.

I installed it this Saturday. I have to say much of my initial reaction has been a milder version of JP's. I can understand now why there's been so much indignation and negativity on the SimHQ and Banana Board... I haven't given it much of a try (I've mostly been runniing the Black Death track while tweaking various options) but so far I've been coloured unimpressed (jaggies even will full AA on,unusual sound issues, "rubber-banding", trees doing the "rolling carpet"-popping in thing", strange DM (damaged hurris sitting up on their radiator and tailwheel). My fps are fine but the rubber banding is distracting. I know many of these issues have work-arounds and solutions, but I have limited time to trawl (not troll ) through the forums to find them and go into the conf.ini and other files and disable the Ubi flash at the beginning etc... I'd rather just fire up RoF and enjoy a frustration-free experience of total immersion in a career. In the meantime, CloD is going to sit on a shelf until Luthier/Oleg unscrew the pooch and stop playing banjo. I can see the potential but it's a real disappointment at this time. C_G

ROFLMAO! Excellent. The last one is exceptional in it's sheer absurdity, love it

I'm off to Future Shop to pick up a copy I got it... there were 6 copies two days ago on the release date and there were the same 6 copies today... not exactly flying off the shelf. Maybe everyone is steaming it ...

Thanks Painless. Its appreciated. Nice work guys!

Argh! just deleted my previous message. Thanks guys. I'll find out soon enough about the FFB question when I buy CloD (my computer room is being destroyed at the moment so there's not much point in getting it right now). As for the 5th controller, I may or may not need to go there depending on whether I can succesfully remove the springs from the ministicks on my Logitech rumblepad. If I can do that and adjust them so they're not too sensitive I'll be OK with 4 controls (until I get into the bombers I suppose )

Does anyone know if CloD can support more than 4 "joysticks"? I have a stick, throttle, pedals and a game pad, but if I'd like to know if I can use the parts of an old logitech stick to make a dedicated trim box (5th control). Similarly, IL2 only allows once "joystick" to have forcefeedback effects; does anyone know if CloD has the same limitation? Cheers, Angus C_G

Please add the children to the list. I've had it with them; they've had 6 and 3 years respectively to demonstrate that they would not impinge on my debonair bachelor behaviour and have failed miserably! I mean, it's been at least three days since I've been able to come home stinking drunk! Bringing back my swinging happy days is well worth my vote!