Msffb2 Mixed Review

[Gothkrieger]

Ok, finally got serious and hooked up and configured buttons in sim for the MSFFB2 and gave it a go.

The short version of what happened is by end of the evening I had my X45 stick back connected to the sim. Now I am sure someone will explain to me what it is I was doing wrong which is great because I am sure I must be at fault.

I found the stick more accurate for use in the gunnery department, at least that is what my impression is in that regard. The problem was all the stalling and lack of good steady control of nose of aircraft during banked turns. I usually fly the 109 and hardly ever stall it while flying, banked turns or otherwise. Many of the stalls and resulting spins were un-recoverable which is again unusual because the times I stalled and spun previously I would be able to recover from unless I was really close to the ground. Now by banked turns I mean serious banked turns, but ones I could do before with different results. Is it simply that the X45 stick at max aileron an elevator banked turn was less of a banked turn than preformed with the FFB stick and so I was getting into a circumstance that I was not getting into before? Even a simple loop seemed to bleed off more speed than before. I know some of you guys used the X45 and the X52 probably had the same characteristics as the X45, did you notice a difference in the flight characteristics of the aircraft after using the FFB?

[B16Enk]

Had you adjusted the curves for your X45?

If so you will need to do it again for the MSFFB2.

It is of course possible that the new stick is that much more sensitive, and responsive, than the X45.

I have an X45, it has sat unused after a mere 4 or 5 months of active service.

But I never used the stick itself, so am unable to offer comparison judgement for you.

The MSFFB2 is vastly superior and is easily worth the time tuning it to suit your own style, when forces are turned on it really comes into it's own when you can feel the edges of the flight envelope

[DD_Brando]

I used the MS stick for quite a while back in the 90s and I was impressed by its sensitivity and response times. This difference stems from the way the MS stick senses input which is quite dissimilar to anything with pots or even Hall sensors.

As Rog says, this stick is worth the time spent tuning those inputs, which will be totally different from the rather clumsy X45.

I'd still be using mine, but the perennial problem with having only one arm is button inputs. I can't get enough! That's why I switched to my much-modified CH Fighterstick and lost the Force

I'm fighting back though - in the middle of converting a CH Force (gameport) stick into a USB device with the Fighterstick buttons - 102 separate buttons available and FFB to boot, yummmm!

Anyway, don't give up on the MS stick. It'll be a real 'joy' to use once you get it right.

[Gothkrieger]

Ok, I did not change the input values for the stick, its still the same as the X45. Is this a case of modifying input values? My values for the stick are the ones that are standard with the sim. I did tinker with it once but ended up restoring it to original values.

At the moment using the FFB I feel like I am holding back in manoeuvres for fear of stalling and I think as a result have lost manoeuvrability. And what’s with not being able to recover from a spin in a 109? Neutral stick, full rudder in oposite direction of spin, right?

[Snacko]

Have you tried IL2JoyControl? It is a great program to tweak all of your curves on your stick. It's a simple program, but can be a little hard to figure out.

[Gothkrieger]

Have you tried IL2JoyControl? It is a great program to tweak all of your curves on your stick. It's a simple program, but can be a little hard to figure out.

I have heard of it. Thing is even with the stock controls in IL2 I would be unsure of what changes I should be making to get BETTER results. Could be the settings are fine, I may just have to get used to this stick and not push it. Thing is right or wrong I would be left feeling that this is a touchy stick as compaired to the X45 and I would be unsure if I would be realizing a control improvement or not.

[T_O_A_D]

This is quite simple, but it takes time to get what you want out of it.

Your curves for Elevator Aileron, and Rudder

If they start at 1 and work their way up to 100 it will be smooth but less responsive.

If you start at 100 and stay 100 all the way across it will be very responsive, and easy to stall, and hard as hell to aim.

My self have Elevator and Aileron starting around 60 and 70 and ending at 100 for props.

For jets I start at 1 and work my way up.

It will require hands on, and adjustment to your style. of heavy or light handed flying.

The ball is in your court.

[Gothkrieger]

My self have Elevator and Aileron starting around 60 and 70 and ending at 100 for props.

Ok, Elevator start at 60, Aileron start at 70. Then should I just divide evenly the remaining balance of 40 & 30 for the remaining settings. This is assuming that you only use the starting number only once and not for several setting locations,

Found articles online on setup, will use them as guides as well.

Why did you start with the first settings so high? Is this because you wanted your initial input on stick to be that sensitive in response?

[fruitbat]

mine are very different from TOADS, we both find each others very hard to use, its a very subjective thing.

mine are:

1 6 16 27 38 49 60 72 85 100

i find these are a nice balance between fast and slow situations, and they work well for me.

[T_O_A_D]

Ok I drug this old post I made out of mothballs.

http://forums.ubi.co...1762#9381051762

I made this back before our Fooltrottle made IL2 sticks

Once he did that and some other guy expanded on it with IL2 Joy Control I've never had to manipulate it this way.

But I keep it around just so I can help others like your self understand what is going on.

This is what you have in config file when you have the X-45 and CH Pro USB pedal combination.

At least this is true for T_O_A_D's machine with Win XP Pro.

If yours is different then set one line at a time to all zeros. Save file then start game and find out which axis is now dead. Once you know which line is affects what axis, you will be on your way.

[rts_joystick]

X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0

Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0

Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100

RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0

FF=0

U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0

V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0

1X=0 0 0 0 13 30 46 59 70 84 100 0 -------------------Left Toe Brake ID1 CH Pro USB

1Y=0 0 0 0 13 30 46 59 70 84 100 0 -------------------Right Toe Brake ID1 CH Pro USB

1Z=0 4 8 26 46 86 100 100 100 100 100 0 ----------------Yaw ID1 CH Pro USB

1X1=0 1 3 6 12 21 32 44 61 81 100 0 ---------------Roll ID2 X-45

1Y1=0 1 4 8 15 24 33 44 60 77 100 0 ---------------Pitch ID2 X-45

1RX1=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0 --------------Front rotary ID2 X-45

1RZ1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0 -----Rudder Rocker ID2 X-45

1U1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0 ------Throttle ID2 X-45

1V1=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0 ------Thumb Rotary ID2 X-45q

1RX=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

1RZ=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

1U=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

1V=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

Here it is with the Microsoft FFb added to the mix.

[rts_joystick]

X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0

Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0

Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100

RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0

FF=2

U=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

V=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Nowdays

1X=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0 -----Micro FFB Alerion ---------------------------------------------- 59 64 70 73 76 83 87 90 94 100

1Y=0 1 4 8 15 24 33 44 60 77 100 0 --------Micro FFB Elevator------------------------------------------------ 78 81 84 86 89 91 93 94 97 100

1Z=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

1X1=0 0 0 0 13 30 46 59 70 84 100 0 --------------CH pedals left Toe brake

1Y1=0 0 0 0 13 30 46 59 70 84 100 0 --------------CH Pedals Right Toe Brake

1RX1=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

1RZ1=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

1U1=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

1V1=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

1RX=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

1RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0 ------------Micro FFB twist rudder----------on the fly trim when using Bombsite

1U=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0 ------Micro FFB Throttle

1V=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

1RY=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0

1Z1=0 4 8 26 46 86 100 100 100 100 100 0 --------------------CH Pedals Yaw Rudder------------------------------------------1 8 19 29 39 51 62 75 86 100

1X2=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ------------------X-45 Alerion Roll

1Y2=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ------------------X-45 Elevator Pitch

1RX2=0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ---------------------X-45 Front Rotary

1RZ2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0 -------X-45 Rudder Rocker

1U2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0 -------X-45 Throttle

1V2=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0 --------X-45 Thumb Rotary

. These are Olegs from I don't know when.

Olegs / email/ mado@1c.ru

Pitch: 5,9,15,23,31,42,54,67,79,91.

Roll: Default

Yaw: 0,4,11,17,28,38,49,61,78,98

[Gothkrieger]

Yes I am beginning to see that. I played with settings at one time before I set them back to stock settings, Found it made a difference when doing ground attack, I was flying into the ground because I was used to how it was responding before and I would have to re-learn how to fly it with the new settings. Which seems to bring me to the point I am seeing, you all learn to fly to the settings you decide on. Someone else could fly your settings if they had the practice. Too bad the sim did not come with recommended settings for each plane so that they would respond like the original ones did, then we could learn to fly a 109 like a 109 flew in regards to joystick control (to a degree as all joysticks are not created equal)

And that is basically at issue, the stick, not the settings or how I fly the stick, that has not changed, the stick has. So I am presented with having to modify the settings so it behaves like the old stick so I don`t have to re-learn how I fly the stick or just learn how this stick flys to my setting as they are. Is my reasoning correct?

Toad, thanks for the settings.

[GreyKnight]

Stick with GothKrieger.

I had something similar a while back. I had the old, original, MSFFB joystick and loved it for years. Then it went t1ts up and I was lucky to get a MSFFB2 off my boss at work. I plugged this new one in and went flying. HOLY CRAP! I couldn't fly for sh1t. Trying to stay in level flight was impossible, the prop plane was like flying a F22 with the flight control computer switched off, it wouldn't stay still.

So in the end I found that the axis profiles that worked for the old one, did not work at all for the new one. Something you are similarly experiencing now. So stick with it and get the axis profiles sorted and you won't regret it.

[Snacko]

Personally, using that IL2Joycontrol, I just pull my stick to where I am comfortable and then set the dials to max out at that point. Then I am naturally pulling the stick to where I am comfortable to get the full turn rate in the game. Then, tweak the curves from there if you want more or less dramatic effect.

[Gothkrieger]

I will keep at it, thanks everybody for all your help.

I just find it a little discouraging to have to be dealing with joystick issues when there is so much other stuff I should be spending my time learning. Especially when I didn’t have these issues with the X45 but alas so be it.