Re: @Falconise - Overclocking advice

[Blairgowrie]

I set the voltage to 2.1 and frequency to 1150MHz at 5-5-5-15 and it would not post. Raised voltage to 2.2 and it ran fine. Next, I tried to tighten timings to 4-5-5-15 and again the overclocking message failed popped up.

Can I still go ahead and speed up the CPU?

[Falconise]

I fully understand! That is why we do this in sessions, an evening or weekend afternoon, as time allows. Running the system overclocked while inbetween sessions is a good idea provided it passed initial stress testing. It allows for real world use testing of the setting.

Don't know why the ram is showing as 2T in the OS. It is either not actually 1T and the OS is reporting correctly, or it IS 1T and the OS is reporting incorrectly. Most likely, it is the first senario, as it is rare that the OS would report incorrectly but still quite possible. Most of the time this happens the board is simply not capable of running 1T, usually due to an early BIOS revision.

The 1T setting should have a large impact on memory performance, and it is a very aggressive setting as far as memory performance and limits are concerned. Many DDR2 systems and Ram cannot reliably run a 1T setting. With ram that can run 4-4-4-9 timings, chances are good it will run 1T. However, the memory controller is actually on the mobo, so it is very limited to the mobo's MCH as well as the Ram.

One way to find out if it is really running 1T or not, is to measure and compare the bandwidth with 1T and 2T settings. You can do this initially with Memtest, looking at the numbers reported for the system memory bandwidth. If the number goes up significantly with a 1T setting, then the computer is running 1T. Next, in the OS, measure memory performance again, comparing 1T and 2T settings. You can use Everest memory and cache test, or SuperPi/HyperPi 1M test (calculates Pi to 1 million decimals, takes less than 30 seconds).

I take the screenshots with Screenshot Captor. Everest will save the cachemem test as a PNG though, and I convert that to JPG with Irfanview before posting.

The Everest Cache & Memory Benchmark is accessed via right clicking the Everest icon in the system tray, and selecting Tools - Cache & Memory Benchmark. It is a very fast test, measuring the system clocks and specs, and a quick calculation of the bandwidth of the memory and cache.

You are running a Report from Everest, which does a full test of all the benchmarks as well as what ever else you have toggled. This creates an HTML file that you can save and refer to later. After the report, go the the Benchmark section of Everest (at the bottom of the list on the left) and you will see your scores highlighted in the results. You can then save these results so they continue to show up in future benchmarks, by clicking Results at the top of the program, and selecting "Add result to user list". This is very handy indeed! You can later display only your own results, easily comparing them to each other. Like so (yes, these are all the saved tests I have lol):

I haven't been able to devote a lot of time to overclocking Falconise. What with working outside, now that Spring is here and hosting Coops, it doesn't leave me with a lot of spare time.

But I have been doing a bit when I can and need a little help before I move on. I have been able to run the ram at 4-4-4-9 with no issues. But the command rate still shows 2T on all the reports even although it shows 1T in the Bios. Could you please explain? The following screen shot was taken while I was running Prime 95.

[attachment=1]

Also I need a bit of help in setting up Everest. I have set the preferences but can't get the lovely graphic screen shots you have been displaying. I have the reports set on hmtl but think that is probably not correct.

[Falconise]

If it would not post with 2.1V and then would with 2.2V, then the system is already right on the edge of stability. Was the command rate still set to 1T at this time?

Tightening the timings at this point would worsen the situation. At least we know you can post with the rated ram speed of 1150MHz, so we now know that when the Ram approaches that speed (while we overclock the CPU) we will encounter problems.

Yes, I think we have enough stockspeed information now, and can proceed to overclocking the FSB and CPU. While doing the overclocking, we will at first not be concerned with Ram speed, and should set the ram relaxed so that any problems that occur should be limited to the CPU. Later, you can tweak the memory for more performance at a given overclock.

Set the ram to 5-5-5-15 2T and keep it around DDR2-800 so that it will only need 1.8 or 1.9V Vdimm. As you move the FSB setting up, the ram will speed up with it, so you will have to use the various memory speed dividers to keep the ram at around DDR2-800. The BIOS should report what the caculated ram speed will be, but you can also see it in Memtest or calculate it yourself.

The equation for calculating ram speed is simple, and fairly accurate to a point:

FSB speed x Ram speed / stock FSB speed (200 in your CPU) = close to actual ram speed.

Therefore:

266 x 800 / 200 = 1064MHz (in range of our stability, but may need a little more than 1.9V Vdimm)

Conversely:

333 x 800 / 200 = 1332MHz (way too fast!)

So we use a different memory divider:

333 x 667 / 200 = 1110MHz (in range but close to our limit and stressfull to the system)

But even better:

333 x 533 / 200 = 888MHz (much better!)

I set the voltage to 2.1 and frequency to 1150MHz at 5-5-5-15 and it would not post. Raised voltage to 2.2 and it ran fine. Next, I tried to tighten timings to 4-5-5-15 and again the overclocking message failed popped up.

Can I still go ahead and speed up the CPU?

[Blairgowrie]

Price of the Asus Rampage Extreme just dropped http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?affiliateid=4352418&sku=33398

Do you know if there were revisions to this board?

I think it may be time for me to get the board and then retry overclocking.

I sleep on it and if it is raining tomorrow I may order it. Not sure about this OCZ ram. Any other suggestions?

[Falconise]

That is still a pretty hefty price for a last generation board, and probably won't go much farther than your P5E. It will likely be more difficult too, since it has a lot more settings in the BIOS. OTOH, it may be easier, and go farther because it is a much better board.

You have barely just begun with your current system, no way are you ready to throw in the towel!

Unless you have somewhere to use/sell or give away the P5E, there is no reason to buy a new expensive board. It would be better to put the money away and hold out for a Core i7 system. Also, that isn't much of a price drop at all, if you take away the Mail-in Rebate!

Your ram is stellar. The rated speed is pretty much as fast as you can buy. The last problem you will have is with your ram.

There is almost certainly revisions on that board, it has been around for quite a while.

Be aware, one trap a lot of overclockers get into is a lack of satisfaction with their clock and system components. They are never satisfied with their results, and spend all their time on trying to get it faster and stable -- rather than simply enjoying the system with regular use once they reach a goal speed. They end up buying new CPU/mobo/ram every few months, and the cycle continues. This in itself may be a worthy hobby, provided you have the cash to buy stuff all the time, at inflated prices due to the parts being new release. The syndrom can snowball very quickly into water cooling, or liquid nitrogen, extreme overclocking and is highly addictive.

[Blairgowrie]

I slept on it and decided to follow your advice. I'll stick with the P5e for now and see if I can resume the overclock.

BTW my Everest version does not show a benchmark option under Tools. Maybe you have the pro version that does?

[Falconise]

I have a registered version of Ultimate, not Pro. But perhaps that feature is not available in the trial version. The price is a little steep for what it is I think, but they do occasinally have deals on it. I can upgrade to the latest version for a discount, but I am passing on that because the only thing the newer version will do for me is better support for Core i7 (which I do not have yet). It's not a deal breaker, because you still have the Report function. The thing is, the trial runs out in 30 days, and then it will not work anymore, and reinstalling will not help.

Glad to hear you are sticking with the P5E!

One thing to note about overclocking, is every single session you have you learn something more, and usually achieve some sort of progress in either faster clocks or stability. You will get better at it, and it will become routine. You will learn the BIOS intimately, and become faster at making changes to the settings while knowing for sure what you changed is correct. It is a never ending process, learning.

I slept on it and decided to follow your advice. I'll stick with the P5e for now and see if I can resume the overclock.

BTW my Everest version does not show a benchmark option under Tools. Maybe you have the pro version that does?

[Blairgowrie]

Bumped the FSB to 350 MHz resulting in a clock speed of 3.334. Memtest ran without any errors. When I get some more time, I will bump it again to 375. If successful I don't think I will go any further.

Is there some way to turn off the power saving feature? Kind of spooky to see a multilplyer of only 6 until I stress with Prime 95 then it reverts to 9 x5. Also I ran Memtest at 2T and then 1T and there were no differences in bandwidth. I guess that means that it will not run 1T?

 

[Blairgowrie]

Edging it up now to 360MHz

[Falconise]

Yes indeed! In teh Advanced menu, CPU Configuration. Turn off C1E support, CPU TM Function, Vanderpool Technology and Intel Speedstep. Leave the rest as Auto or Enabled.

It isn't a good idea to run any power savings features while experimenting with clock speeds. After you achieve a stable clock, you can try turning them on, and sometimes they work (especially with decent mobos like Asus)!

I agree, it seems 1T is not kicking in. It is something to research a bit later, but not a big deal because many systems will not run 1T even with good ram. When the CPU is overclocked, it becomes even less an issue as CPU speed is king of the hill and will overcome any benefits that 1T will give in the end. At stockspeed 1T becomes more desireable, so it may be worth googling to see if others have the same problem, and whether it is a BIOS thing or something else.

Is there some way to turn off the power saving feature? Kind of spooky to see a multilplyer of only 6 until I stress with Prime 95 then it reverts to 9 x5. Also I ran Memtest at 2T and then 1T and there were no differences in bandwidth. I guess that means that it will not run 1T?

[Falconise]

Not far from 375MHz now! That'll put you at the 3.5GHz goal!

Edging it up now to 360MHz

[attachment=1]

[Blairgowrie]

At what price point do you think this board makes sense to pick up? The price comes down almost daily.

[Blairgowrie]

Raised the CPU FSB to 375 MHz and everything stable.

[Snacko]

I just tested that about 30 mins ago.

[Falconise]

What is Black Death?

Looks like you have a bottleneck with your video card. Whenever you increase your cpu performance and not see a decent framerate improvement, it is usually the CPU waiting for the vid card. In order to verify this, simply overclock the vid card and see if you then get better framerates. If so, then the vid card is under powered compared to the cpu.

As for the Rampage X48... It's hard to justify that price when you can get a decent Core i7 mobo for about the same. That price of $228 is minus a $50 MIR, so it's actual price is $278 before the rebate. That puts you right near the Asus P6T arena. I really think it boils down to how long you plan to use your current CPU, and if you plan to buy a quad core socket 775 upgrade later. The Rampage is a sweet board, no doubt. So if you can use and enjoy it for a couple years or more, then the current price is worth it -- $100 or so per year is piddlesquat.

.

[Falconise]

It's things like this that cause me to use a different hard drive for initial testing of overclocks. I have it imaged and can restore it in a few minutes in case of disaster. Once I know I am stable, I can boot to my main drive and use the system normally, with little fear of problems.

That doesn't mean your firewall problems were caused by the overclock, but there is certainly the possibility. One trick in troubleshooting any problem in a PC is isolating the cause. That can be really difficult or impossible at times.

Anyway, I am glad you got it back working. Strange that it was adding programs other than the one you were selecting.

I just tested that about 30 mins ago.

[Blairgowrie]

Blackdeath is a il2 track that last just over 2 1/2 minutes. It has lots of action and explosions and is generally regarded as the best benchmark for iL2. Fraps are started at the 5 second mark and ended at the 2.30.

I have two X1950XTX's in Crossfire and I note that Snacko is getting almost identical frame rates with his monster quad CPU and 4970X2 (I think this is the card he has). I also think that the game likely reaches it's limit around 65 fps and a bigger video card makes little difference.

I think you have convinced me to stand pat with the P5E. Now what else can i spend some money on?

 

[Fireman]

..............Now what else can i spend some money on?

[Snacko]

I have a 4870x2

[Falconise]

A nice new case!

http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=35005&vpn=RC%2D840%2DKKN1%2DGP&manufacture=COOLERMASTER

Same as my HAF932, except all aluminum, has fan filters, and one extra HD bay instead of a 5.25 bay. If you wait long enough, I'll sell you my HAF when I get one of these sweet aluminum monsters!

I am going to have to reinstall IL2 and try Black Death. Might be a while though, I have work backing up these days.

Blackdeath is a il2 track that last just over 2 1/2 minutes. It has lots of action and explosions and is generally regarded as the best benchmark for iL2. Fraps are started at the 5 second mark and ended at the 2.30.

I have two X1950XTX's in Crossfire and I note that Snacko is getting almost identical frame rates with his monster quad CPU and 4970X2 (I think this is the card he has). I also think that the game likely reaches it's limit around 65 fps and a bigger video card makes little difference.

I think you have convinced me to stand pat with the P5E. Now what else can i spend some money on?

[Blairgowrie]

My goodness! That is one monster case. 30lbs dry!

[Falconise]

Hmmm, interesting. The all steel version HAF 932 is listed as the same wieght. You'd think the aluminum one would be lighter.

http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=33029&vpn=RC%2D932%2DKKN1&manufacture=COOLERMASTER

Cooler Master's site is the same:

http://www.coolermaster.com/products/product.php?language=en&act=detail&tbcate=17&id=5777

http://www.coolermaster.com/products/product.php?language=en&act=detail&tbcate=17&id=5363