109 Cockpit

[Pappy]

Hey guys,

For an assignment in one of my aviation classes, we are required to volunteer with an aviation related organization for 10-15 hours during the semester. I contacted the aviation museum that i posted pictures of a while back, and sat down with the membership manager for a little while. He showed me around the museum even though ive been there 3 times (no charge, and I'd never pass up an oppurtunity to see those planes again) Anyways,

He took me to the 109, we climbed pass the chain, he propped open the cockpit and told me to climb on up and have a look!

Wasnt allowed to sit inside, because the museum was still open, but it was Amazing! I had never seen a 109 cockpit that close before. Its smaller than what it appears in Il2. He also told me that the engine was actually designed inverted, meaning the spark plugs are located un the under side, and the pistons are pushed upwards, against gravity. Anyone have any ideas why?

It was an awesome experience, I really with I had my camera with me..

[Kimosabi]

Sounds fun! I'd love to climb around on a Messerscmidt sometime.

There are many theories about the reason to why they inverted the DB600's. Many believe that they did it because of the center cannon but that cannon mount came after the engines were designed and tested, so the centre mounted cannon is more of a result from the engine design than vice versa. They also used the DB600--> engines on other aircraft models like the BF-110 and the HE-111 etc. Primarily the engine was designed as a lightweight high performance engine. Why it's inverted I have no idea but looking at these two pictures, you might get an idea to one of the reasons:

Although, Adolf Galland and Gunther Rall tested both Spitfires and 109's, and both of them said that forward view was equally poor on both aircrafts.

Another reason might be that the prop hub(center of rotational mass) came closer to the center of the airframe, but that would leave the crank. The crank is still high, and coupled to the prop via gear drives, although it does call for a narrower engine cowling up where the pilot might wanna see around it.

I'll research some more and see if I can find anything more useful than theries about it.

[Sid]

Another reason might be that the prop hub(center of rotational mass) came closer to the center of the airframe, but that would leave the crank. The crank is still high, and coupled to the prop via gear drives, although it does call for a narrower engine cowling up where the pilot might wanna see around it.

Perhaps it was to do with the down-sizing and streamlining of the nose. Does the DB engine still have an oil sump or reservoir at the bottom? If it is removed and replaced by oil injection there is no need for a sump thus removing weight and bulk from the engine. It would possibly need some sort of reservoir/cooler but this could be positioned further back and behind the engine as it appears to do so. Doing this along with the raising of the crankshaft/gears nearer the centre line would enable some streamlining due to the reduction in engine size.

Edit: Bit more info here

'Daimler-Benz DB 600 series engines - one of those designs that turned out to be right from the very start... Inverted mounting provided better visibility, lower center of gravity, and improved maintenance access. In the Bf 109, a cannon was mounted between the engine banks and fired through a propeller hub. The DB-601A in the Bf 109E, used fuel injection instead of a carburetor, a great asset in combat since the engine did not cut out under negative g' forces. This engine was also used in some Heinkel 111s and license-built versions in the Macchi MC.202 Folgore and several Japanese aircraft.'

Answering my own question, the picture on the page shows that there is a flat oil reservoir, situated at the bottom of the engine inbetween the valve mechanism covers.

[BadAim]

There is one explanation for the inverted engines that you guys have not accounted for. They're Germans! They do it because they can. Seriously though, one of the benefits of the dry sump system is that you can run the engine inverted or in a negative G situation indefinitely without the repercussions of a conventional wet sump engine (early death). Dry sump systems are commonly used on race cars to mitigate the effects of turning hard for extended periods of time, which can starve the oil pump in a conventional system. Most of the aircraft with inline engines used during WWII had strict limitations on inverted or negative G flight. Not so with the German engines!

/Pedantic diatribe

[Kimosabi]

Yes, dry sump lubrication is a really good idea for any vehicle that put g-forces to use. No sideffects other than keeping that oil tank topped off. Dry sumping it is also a result of the design though, it's impossible to use a wet sump on that engine config all together. Found a page that shows how many types of aircraft that used the DB engines:

http://www.wehrmacht-history.com/manufacturers/daimler-benz-ag-manufacturer.htm

I remember reading somewhere that the 109 wasn't even designed around teh DB engines at all. Models A,B,C and D was intended to use the Jumo 210 engines. Still inverted V12's but much smaller capacity.

Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Jumo_210