Charles Durning - who knew?

[Waldo.Pepper]

Veteran - hero. I had no idea.

http://www.pbs.org/memorialdayconcert/wwii/durning.html

[Zeus-cat]

WOW!!! Great link.

[Beebop-RIP]

I did not know that.

Thanks for the link.

[Dubbo]

Excellent link mate. He really did have a relentless time of it.

[DoubleTap]

Amazing what these guys from that generation did. Durning did all that and turned out to be a great actor and talented performer.

[JensenPark]

great little article.

I knew he served - but thought it was in the Pacific on Iwo Jima...

thanks for posting.

[Enforcer57]

Last season, he was on an episode of the EXCELLENT show Navy NCIS, which stars Mark harmon as a former Marine sniper who's a lead investigator in the navy criminal investigation serivice. Durning played a marine vet of Iwo Jima who was tormented by his expreriences, and was also

a Medal of Honor recipient. He did a GREAT job of that, in my favorite episode of my 2cd fav

show.

THe best scene was where a smart ass JAG prosecutor brings 2 marine MPs to arrest him at

NCIS for an incident that happened on Iwo, despite the agents' protests. An NCIS agent pulls the MOH out of Durings

shirt and the 2 marines snap to and salute smartly....they arent takng him anywhere.

Mark Harmon (Gibbs) says "this man stood tall in hell!". An ironicly accurate description of

the Actor playing a hero.......I knew he was a vet, as they showed pix of him taken during

the war, but i had no idea......

This is undoubtedly why you thought he was on Iwo....probably saw that episode.

As Ive said repeatedly before on the ubi forum.....where do we find such men?

[Rattler]

As Ive said repeatedly before on the ubi forum.....where do we find such men?

You find them right next door, often enough. This is a fellow from my regiment in WW2, the South Alberta Regiment. As the link states, he was a mechanic, and a militia (reservist) volunteer. http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=history/secondwar/citations/currie Quite a guy. Met his wife and grand-daughter in 1987. Great mess-dinner that one was! My brother commandeered the Lt. Gov.'s limo for an hour!

[Enforcer57]

Whoa! he managed to stay awake for 3 days, and when relievd fell asleep and

collapsed on his feet. Where does a guy find discipline like that? I pass out after

24 hrs.

and taking on snipers wiht a rifle from the turret while his gunner engaged armor wiht

the main gun. sheeeesh. I can only assume he was commanding a firefly sherman, since

he was able to take out Tiger tanks. Regardless, thats quite a feat taking and holding

that town. :shock:

[sged]

I can only assume he was commanding a firefly sherman, since

he was able to take out Tiger tanks.

Not necessarely....if the tiger was shot from behind, any other armor could take it out.......the rear AND the bottom where the weak spots....

I've seen a lil flik somewhere, a US pilot was saying that when they engaged a tiger, they always shot from behind towards the ground...the bullets would then ricoshe upwards, underneath the tank...with any luck, they would pierce the fueltank, setting it on fire....I'll see if I can find that movie again and post it...

[Waldo.Pepper]

a US pilot was saying that when they engaged a tiger, they always shot from behind towards the ground...the bullets would then ricoshe upwards, underneath the tank.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Been watching Charles Durning lately as Tommy's Dad on Rescue Me.

[Rattler]

a US pilot was saying that when they engaged a tiger, they always shot from behind towards the ground...the bullets would then ricoshe upwards, underneath the tank.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Been watching Charles Durning lately as Tommy's Dad on Rescue Me.

I have personally fired .50 AP at 10mm rolled homogenous armour, and it barely made a dent (0 deg. incidence 100m range.) If anyone claims to have taken out a tank with a machine gun, let me get into my old tank (Leopard 1), they can get into their plane, and we'll duke it out. I'll bet I win! Don't believe all the stuff you see on the net! I would even doubt 20mm hispanos or 30mm mk 108's would do much. Maybe a mk. 103 30mm, but only the AP rounds, not HE. BTW, the guy was in a Firefly: all of their tanks were Fireflies, as their divisional commander, General Worthington, wanted them to have the best available as they were an in-front of the front lines divisional recce regiment.

[Waldo.Pepper]

As Ive said repeatedly before on the ubi forum.....where do we find such men?

You find them right next door, often enough. This is a fellow from my regiment in WW2, the South Alberta Regiment. As the link states, he was a mechanic, and a militia (reservist) volunteer. http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=history/secondwar/citations/currie Quite a guy. Met his wife and grand-daughter in 1987. Great mess-dinner that one was! My brother commandeered the Lt. Gov.'s limo for an hour!

Further to Currie for you...

The image is used on the cover of this excellent book, with the following caption.

Major D.V. Currie (second from left) rounding-up prisoners. His small force or armoured and artillery units and Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders captured St. Lambert-sur-Dives after heavy fighting. He was awarded the V.C. for this action.

[sged]

a US pilot was saying that when they engaged a tiger, they always shot from behind towards the ground...the bullets would then ricoshe upwards, underneath the tank.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I have personally fired .50 AP at 10mm rolled homogenous armour, and it barely made a dent (0 deg. incidence 100m range.) If anyone claims to have taken out a tank with a machine gun, let me get into my old tank (Leopard 1), they can get into their plane, and we'll duke it out. I'll bet I win! Don't believe all the stuff you see on the net! I would even doubt 20mm hispanos or 30mm mk 108's would do much. Maybe a mk. 103 30mm, but only the AP rounds, not HE. BTW, the guy was in a Firefly: all of their tanks were Fireflies, as their divisional commander, General Worthington, wanted them to have the best available as they were an in-front of the front lines divisional recce regiment.

Mmm did I struck a nerve or something?

I'm telling you, I know what I saw....and I'm determind to find it back....but it could be that I kinda bent the truth, but not on purpose...he might talked about rockets as well.....we'll see when I find it...btw, it was authentic war footage!

Found it!

I await appologies.........http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6635752499311348219

[Rattler]

Mmm did I struck a nerve or something?

I'm telling you, I know what I saw....and I'm determind to find it back....but it could be that I kinda bent the truth, but not on purpose...he might talked about rockets as well.....we'll see when I find it...btw, it was authentic war footage!

Found it!

I await appologies.........

I understand, and I've even seen that footage from a post on the forum before. Without secondary confirmation, I challenge anyone to tell me what vehicles those were on the ground. Again, just because someone says something on the History channel, I don't have to believe it! I've taught armoured vehicle recognition for 12 years in the Army, and I can't tell what they are. Not trying to show you any disrespect, Stephan, but it seems quite unlikely.

[Rattler]

BTW: I've never heard of a Tiger or any tank other than a Churchill Crocodile pulling a fuel trailer. You wouldn't catch me dead pulling a trailer of any kind! For long distances, tanks were put on truck transporters or railed. Anyway, enough on this topic for me, unless anyone wants to discuss it further?

[Waldo.Pepper]

Sorry Sged... this topic is a pony that has been ridden more than my ex girlfriend!

Certainly it is tempting to regard the Veteran's remembrances of their own experiences as an excellent source of information. More valuable than our own opinions on the matter, under most cases.

However, Louis Brown writing in his excellent Radar History of World War Two brings up some important points about such testimony.

"I have come to find the interview a flawed method. Recollections of events half a century ago, called up in conversation with an interviewer uncertain of what needs to be asked and with neither party given sufficient time for reflection, generally extract little that is new and much that is misleading. There are numerous transcripts of such interviews and, though they certainly have value, they also disclose many errors, the result of the passage of years, the secrecy of the early times and the subsequent development of mythology."

Despite the Veterans sincerity in his beliefs you cannot knock out a Tiger with a 50cal. It is not impossible, just damn near impossible.

The video likely, almost certainly does not match the testimony.

The video shows vehicles, not Tigers. Furthermore; I defy anyone to find an image of a Tiger with a trailer full of petrol. If it was done, it was rare in the extreme. I have never see one.

It was often the case that when you spotted enemy tanks, they were reported as Tigers. Just like when the German pilot was shot down over England in 1940, they would refuse to believe that they were downed by a lowly Hurricane - and insisted that it must have been a Spitfire. Spitfire snobbery, is just as contagious as Tiger panic.

[BadAim]

Indeed, sged I have to go in with the other guys on this one. Every tank was a Tiger to every one but the few men who were trained in vehicle recognition ( tankers, spotters ect.) and even they often made (somtimes fatal) mistakes. The simple fact of the matter is that there were only a handfull of tigers in Normandy at all (iirc, no more than 100) and they were all facing the Brits who were equipped with fireflies to handle them. The 75's and 76's were no match for Tigers at anything but suicide ranges, leaving the Americans woefully unprepared. There were exceptions of course, but these are generally exceptional circumstances. There are to my knowledge 0 after action (actual inspections of knocked out equipment) reports of Tigers (or any other tanks )being destroyed by .50 cal. fire from the air. Please be careful of what you read, there is a lot of crap out there, I've been wading through it for thirty years.

[Enforcer57]

sged old boy, (im using my phony RAF accent here, cherio) there was HUGE debate on

this subj on the main il2 ubi forum; this is why the incredulous responses-its old teritory to

many on here.

WHile anything is possible, fifties and 75s (and even 76s)

were USUALLY no match for a tiger. Badaim has it correct. several incidents of point blank from behind shots, track shots,

and one particular one where a churchill stopped one with a lowly 6 pdr (57mm pop gun);

the AP round lodged between the turret and chassis in about the only spot it could have,

and jammed the turret. After beign tormented by a mob of british tanks, the crew

un-assed the tank and went home. Sometimes shermans actually rammed tigers. Shermans

were good vehicles, but lousy weapons, until 44 anyway.

this incident was the begining of alot of hooey about how effective the lousy 57 was until

it became obvious that it was useless.

If the canadian unit had 75s, they would have had to use different tactics (like retrreating).

it was rare that entire units had fireflys wiht the 17pdr (about 76mm, but wiht a HUGE

shellcasing behind it-the basic equivalant to the 75 on the panther). Most units had a few

fireflys and many 75 or 76mm shermans.

the US army finally fielded a unit with them at the end of the war, but it ended before

they were used. It was criminal how badly armed the US army was in its tanks, when

better guns were availible. Still took a few rounds to knock out a tiger usually. The

old movie "battle of the bulge" was nearly fiction, but it was pretty accurate about tigers

vs shermans. Same applies to Panthers as well.

[sged]

Ok, there are lot's off if's and but's....I took it too personally, now seeing it was not an atack on my remarks, but on the fact itself....

[Cold_Gambler]

How's about that cockpit bar covering the bottom of the Revi gunsight in the FW190?

:twisted:

:wink:

[Rattler]

How's about that cockpit bar covering the bottom of the Revi gunsight in the FW190?

:twisted:

:wink:

Angus, you bastard!

Don't worry, Stephan. No hard feelings! Now, let's get to some serious flying!

[Enforcer57]

Nah, the only time these guys actually ATTACK you is if youre flying with em online.

Watch out for one guy named rattler expecially......i got alot of......instruction....from

him on my first night online. I was flying so eratically that he flew into the ground while

chasing me on the deck. The it was on......I think he blew me outta the air about, oh,

maybe 17 times.

and theres this other guy named Dubbo who thinks he should fly bombers like they

were freaking fighters.....damn him......and just refuses to admit that he's at a

disadvantage.

You really should do a search on the ubi gen discusn forum on this.....you will be

amazed how many tangents can come outta one subject-shit went on for months.

THEN you will understand

grasshopper........(visualize blind, bald chinese guy).

[JensenPark]

Nah, the only time these guys actually ATTACK you is if youre flying with em online.

Watch out for one guy named rattler expecially......i got alot of......instruction....from

him on my first night online. I was flying so eratically that he flew into the ground while

chasing me on the deck. The it was on......I think he blew me outta the air about, oh,

maybe 17 times.

and theres this other guy named Dubbo who thinks he should fly bombers like they

were freaking fighters.....damn him......and just refuses to admit that he's at a

disadvantage.

You really should do a search on the ubi gen discusn forum on this.....you will be

amazed how many tangents can come outta one subject-shit went on for months.

THEN you will understand

grasshopper........(visualize blind, bald chinese guy).

Nah, actually the only time these clowns attack you is when you are about to reach for the last bottle of beer in the case, or drain the last ounce of scotch. Then things get truly ugly.