The Day I Dream Of........

[Kimosabi]

Let's not forget that the power is always the people. What's society? The people. The economy? People. War? People. The little man, blue collars, consumers, call it what you want. Without consumers/people, no financial "elite" will have power. We choose to be lead, not the other way around, the job is there for the taking. Any moron can win an election, it's basically just about choosing the right words and effort, you don't have to mean ANYTHING of what you're saying as long as the masses buy it... The sole reason to why the "elite" can do what they want is because we let them. We're lazy, we're too busy, we're happy with our lives. That's how the corporate world can grow stronger.

[JensenPark]

Ok, how did this get to 2 pages without a comment from your friendly neighbourhood nutty rightwinger?

this is who secretly is controlling things guys...(I think BG is a member)

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Bilderberg-Conspiracy---why-the-illuminati-and-freemasons-are-irrelevent

Of course I have to side with my brother BA on this one.

IMHO, Obama is bankrupting the US financially and morally. I would rather see Hillary there. At least she has balls.

TARP, selling out Israel, sucking up to terrorist states. Making inflamatory, ignorant and just plain uninformed comments about Alberta oil (why does he want to buy oil from murderous dictators instead of clean oil from a democracy?)

His lovely little deficit: just for this year - every single tax paying American would need to be paying ballpark $31k in added taxes just to cover this years deficit (not interest...just the deficit).

Obama's latest, backing the mosque on 9/11 land, is mind boggling. Yes, freedom of religion means people should be able to build a place of worship , but does he not realize where the funding is coming from to build this thing? Uhh...Saudi Arabia...land of the extreme Wahhabists and birthplace of 19 of the 21 9/11 terrorists. You'd think the President would be concerned that a country linked to such an extreme following of Islam is funding that building. When will he ask Saudi Arabia to allow a church to be built there?

While I'm glad not to be in Obamaland...I fear for the future of the free world if he gets another term.

[Perfesser]

I saw you were slacking there JP so I jumped in to cover your 6.

I think things are getting close to crunch time. I took a couple of weeks pay out of the bank in case of a "holiday".

We are not immune to their virus.

[JensenPark]

Part of me is scared silly and think it is time to sell property, cash out equities and get into gold.

On the other hand, you can't (or never should) sell the US economy short...it will always find a way to come back.

I like the fact the US folks are paying down consumer debt and increasing their savings rate at levels unheard of in our lifetime...

Just never know.

[BadAim]

Let's not forget that the power is always the people. What's society? The people. The economy? People. War? People. The little man, blue collars, consumers, call it what you want. Without consumers/people, no financial "elite" will have power. We choose to be lead, not the other way around, the job is there for the taking. Any moron can win an election, it's basically just about choosing the right words and effort, you don't have to mean ANYTHING of what you're saying as long as the masses buy it... The sole reason to why the "elite" can do what they want is because we let them. We're lazy, we're too busy, we're happy with our lives. That's how the corporate world can grow stronger.

Sadly, I can offer no argument. The problem is that ostensibly "democratic' governments always in the end slip into totalitarianism of some sort. This is one of the reasons that the founding fathers of the USA feared democracy more than the crown, and why they did not create a democracy (contrary to popular belief) but a republic. Unfortunately;

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.

Alexis de Tocqueville

this happened long ago.

Hence my consternation at the demise of a Republic which I have never really known.

Part of me is scared silly and think it is time to sell property, cash out equities and get into gold.

On the other hand, you can't (or never should) sell the US economy short...it will always find a way to come back.

I like the fact the US folks are paying down consumer debt and increasing their savings rate at levels unheard of in our lifetime...

Just never know.

We're also buying firearms at unheard of levels too..... I suspect, unfortunately, that the latter will be more useful.........

[BadAim]

The current Communist/Socialist agenda that is being propagated worldwide....

No offence BA, you're a nice bloke, but wtf are you talking about? Never mind that Communism and socialism are two very separate political philosophies, just where in the wide world is this supposed agenda being peddled?

One answer might be, in the heads of a group of press and pundits whose main intention is to incite fear in their gullible audience. We saw that when certain "experts" reported that Britain's National Health Service used "death lists" to highlight patients who (reportedly) weren't worth saving; and again when it was stated that "Professor Stephen Hawking would be dead if he had needed to rely on the NHS". Embarrassingly, it was pointed out that the good prof IS, and always has been, an NHS patient. The truth falls by the wayside in the face of good politicking however, and came too late to prevent the fear from taking hold.

Try to hold onto the idea that a social health system does not equate to socialism or Communism just because the word social is being used. Excuse my sarcasm.

B

No offense to you Either Brando but WTF are you talking about? I never mentioned anything about health care, and it's not relevant to anything I said. I'm quite familiar with the differences between Socialism and Communism, but since I have not read Marx, I'll not argue them. I personally see the difference as pure semantics, but I can see how you might see things otherwise.

Please stop assuming I'm stupid, Brando and come with a relevant argument and we might have something to talk about. Excuse the sarcasm .

I don't assume you are stupid BA, and I'm sorry if I come over that way. I was using the health examples to highlight my thoughts about pundits really, and to criticise the spin that is put on anything different.

And, I'll admit it, to pull you over regarding "The current Communist/Socialist agenda that is being propagated worldwide." I still don't understand what that means. When I look around Britain and the rest of the European states I can't find any trace of what I think you mean. All I see is consumerism and a desire to kickstart our economies so that we can carry on consuming.

I will limit my reply until I have the time to consider it more fully. I will in my defense say that I consider the entirety of Europe largely Socialist, as do most American thinkers (the non thinkers, only care about European fashion). That I consider the differences between Socialism and Communism largely semantic will explain my lumping them together (and I might imagine to your consternation).

I can only plead ignorance if Europeans think differently of their own forms of governance. I have no formal education on the subject, and as de Tocqueville might observe, I'm quite proud of the fact.

[Trout]

Wow this is a great political debate/discussion. Once we run this into the ground maybe we can start on religion and then all borrow money from each other. What could go wrong?

Dangerous water my friends, dangerous water.

I'll go stick my head back in the sand. Let me know when the bombs are falling and i can embrace the rapture lol.

[BadAim]

Wow this is a great political debate/discussion. Once we run this into the ground maybe we can start on religion and then all borrow money from each other. What could go wrong?

Dangerous water my friends, dangerous water.

I'll go stick my head back in the sand. Let me know when the bombs are falling and i can embrace the rapture lol.

But do not real men embrace danger?

BTW, I'm quite proud of my fellow Dogz in that this discussion has not broken down into a flame war as it would have elsewhere. I credit this to the superior level of intelligence (or, perhaps 'self awareness') that I have noted amongst the entirely unique community that makes up the Danger Dogz.

[JensenPark]

Ack...I agree with BA again. (I'm scared)

I think we can discuss such stuff and realize we all have an opinions that we are free to discuss or ignore and so on.

I often find myself on the wrong side of opinion (like when I supported Vanilla Ice in the "who's the best rapper of all time" discussion) but I like to hear what others think. Mostly because it is so neat to hear about what other Dogz think, how they live, how where they grew up affects their views, etc.

Like BA and I could be brothers we are so alike in way - but have very different views on guns....even though I used to have two hand guns.

That being said...you're all a bunch of gay, David-Beckham loving, Spice Girl-listening, Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 3 playing wierdos for your views.

[BadAim]

I'm just tired of only being allowed to preach to the choir (and I don't mean just here). Why the hell shouldn't we discuss politics and religion? I don't consider this place like any other forum board, were not here only to discuss IL2 or flight sims, were here to connect with our friends. At some point were bound to learn things about our friends, and it's not always to our liking, but it's the real world, and the real world is messy. I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not. (aw crap, I've broken out in song lyrics again)

I realize that some may come here for different reasons, but I'm actually quite fond of of you guys and I bloody well refuse to be anything other than what I am here, and I don't expect any one else to be any different either. I understand that it may cause friction, but how else can it be? I actually believe that a Facist Jesus freak and a Godless commie can be freinds (just look at me and JP), but if they're going to be true to themselves (and each other) there must be some friction at some point. The question is will that friction create more light than heat?

That's how I see it.

[Kimosabi]

I will limit my reply until I have the time to consider it more fully. I will in my defense say that I consider the entirety of Europe largely Socialist, as do most American thinkers (the non thinkers, only care about European fashion). That I consider the differences between Socialism and Communism largely semantic will explain my lumping them together (and I might imagine to your consternation).

I can only plead ignorance if Europeans think differently of their own forms of governance. I have no formal education on the subject, and as de Tocqueville might observe, I'm quite proud of the fact.

You're right that most of Europe has kind of a socialist system but socialism is only half of what communism is. Communism preaches full power to the governments. One rule with one ruler, almost like a dictatorship but not quite since a government has many branches.

Socialism is very simply put 50% government and 50% private companies. To some extent I think it's quite ok to have government healthcare like I'm used to, but on the other hand it sucks to have privatized power companies like we got a few years ago. It only pushed the prices up for us Norwege's and resulted in them selling cheap electricity to other countries, which then again resultet in empty water magazines when fall/winter approaches. It's not a good deal for us when most of our electricity is turbine made hydro-electricity. We pay the bill for their greed, or so to speak. Things that people really need in a modern society should be controlled by the government IMO, because the government and the people sitting there are depending on our votes to stay there. We have the opportunity to play their greed against them IMO.

A couple of cents there.

[Perfesser]

NOW I'm pissed. JP said I play CFS 3. I want him banned IMMEDIATELY.

Religion and politics are death sentences. They rely on belief and faith. Not something you can easily change by debate. They require a traumatic emotional event to change your mind. Attack someone's beliefs and it gets ugly very quickly.

We're talking "the state of the world". We can see what's happening. Events will prove someone right or wrong.

Bush says he has WMD, they invade, quietly find nothing = lying sack of ****. No debate.

Obama says one thing to the public, signs a bill to the opposite= lying sack of ****. No debate.

@ JP - speculative real estate may not be such a good thing now but you're in the oil patch .... location, location- entry level housing or rental is probably good - your call. Commercial real estate probably ain't a good idea anywhere.

Anything in paper can fall so fast it will be gone before you get a chance to get out. I think the market has topped out anyway.

There is one investment company that said in Aug of 2008 to get out of stocks into cash before the crash. They said the same thing this year April 30th.

Kitco and Border Gold are reputable bullion dealers but get it delivered and hide it. Keep guys like BA and Trout (metal detectors) away. Shoot first(long guns are OK for this - large caliber recommended).

Something to digest- http://dailyreckoning.com/china-enters-the-gold-market/

I think "for profit" should not be in charge of services for the people unless you can trust the intentions of those in charge. Trash collection, medical care, policing, electricity supply and nuclear energy etc. need public oversight otherwise you get rising cost and lower service.

Since we have had for profit garbage collection my garage stinks and the varmits are on the rise everywhere.

I don't know enough about government to even tell you what a Communist is. Or a Republican, or a Liberal, or a New Democrat, or a Partie Quebecois.

I think I know what's right and what's wrong.

[BadAim]

I'm with you Kimo, and to be honest I felt much like you at one time. Problem is there is little difference between fiscal and political greed, or any other kind for that matter. I don't believe that any government can be trusted, much as our founding fathers did. I guess that's why I see socialism and communism in the light that I do.

[Tribunus]

Bush says he has WMD, they invade, quietly find nothing = lying sack of ****. No debate.

That’s not true my friend.

When I was in Iraq in 2005, we found bunker after bunker filled with Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Artillery shells filled with Nerve Gas to be precise.

The discovery of WMD was on the news for about a day and a half and then the story was killed.

It turned out that the Nerve Gas shells were all made in the Good Old USA. We had shipped them to Saddam Hussein back when he was fighting the Iranians in the 1980s.

[BadAim]

Bush says he has WMD, they invade, quietly find nothing = lying sack of ****. No debate.

That’s not true my friend.

When I was in Iraq in 2005, we found bunker after bunker filled with Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Artillery shells filled with Nerve Gas to be precise.

The discovery of WMD was on the news for about a day and a half and then the story was killed.

It turned out that the Nerve Gas shells were all made in the Good Old USA. We had shipped them to Saddam Hussein back when he was fighting the Iranians in the 1980s.

LOL! Ah, the tangled webs we weave.......

I beg to differ on the faith and belief thing Prof. I have only been a Christian for ten years, after I was convinced after much study that the scriptures are largely a collection of historical documents and that they tell the story of they creator of the universe redeeming a fallen people. In the time since the way I view the world has changed entirely and nearly everything I believe has changed because of my faith, and my faith has been strengthened by what I believe. I'm still a sack of shit, but I'm getting better.

I think so many people see all faith as being blind faith. I don't. I think blind faith is a fools errand, and I have little tolerance for fools. In the same way they see "Belief" as some philosophical fantasy. I don't. I only want to believe what I believe is real, I'll leave the philosophy to the philosophers.

As for the paper being worthless thing, I'm 100% with you. I'm not well versed in international economics, but I'm convinced that the US economy is little more than a ponzi scheme, and the whole bloody house of cards is getting ready to fall in.

[Kimosabi]

I do believe that a government can be trusted but not using todays system(s). Atleast here, Democracy is just a deception. I've talked to a now retired lobbyist and I was amazed at how much influence a lobbyist really have. He said quite clear that "It doesn't matter who you elect for each period, the lobby is where most things happen". Decisions are made behind closed doors and over a glass of scotch, not in front of the government and it's people, as I see it. There's too much cameraderie going on, objectivity is thrown out the window to be replaced by favours and deals between "friends". It's ok to go that route in the corporate world but not when you're running a country IMO.

[BadAim]

I do believe that a government can be trusted but not using todays system(s). Atleast here, Democracy is just a deception. I've talked to a now retired lobbyist and I was amazed at how much influence a lobbyist really have. He said quite clear that "It doesn't matter who you elect for each period, the lobby is where most things happen". Decisions are made behind closed doors and over a glass of scotch, not in front of the government and it's people, as I see it. There's too much cameraderie going on, objectivity is thrown out the window to be replaced by favours and deals between "friends". It's ok to go that route in the corporate world but not when you're running a country IMO.

BINGO!

Sorry for shouting, but I love this stuff....... It's much the same here, mate. I guess that's why I'm so cynical. I guess it boils down to human nature, the type who are most likely to get into politics are the ones you least want there (much like used car salesmen), and the few "good" ones who get through are either drowned out in the noise or corrupted by it.

[Perfesser]

Sigh ... we need a round table. So many points I want to revisit.

As for WMD, they implied nukes. We already knew they were gassing the Kurds.

Anyway, the point I want to make is PREPARE for what is about to happen.

Assume your dollars won't buy much in the future. Forget instant microwave meals, forget phoning for pizza.

Learn to turn dried beans and flour into food and buy a little extra every time you shop to store.

Learn to cook like your grandma. It's easy, cheap and tasty.

Don't assume it's sometime way off in the future. Israel could lay an airstrike on Iran this week and things could go bad so fast MY head would spin.

[BadAim]

Sigh ... we need a round table. So many points I want to revisit.

As for WMD, they implied nukes. We already knew they were gassing the Kurds.

Anyway, the point I want to make is PREPARE for what is about to happen.

Assume your dollars won't buy much in the future. Forget instant microwave meals, forget phoning for pizza.

Learn to turn dried beans and flour into food and buy a little extra every time you shop to store.

Learn to cook like your grandma. It's easy, cheap and tasty.

Don't assume it's sometime way off in the future. Israel could lay an airstrike on Iran this week and things could go bad so fast MY head would spin.

I've been expecting these things for sometime, you see; I've read the end of the book. I hate to say it, but it's going to be even worse than you can imagine.

I do so love conversing with people who think for themselves. It's such a rare quality these days. Thanks Mates.

[Tonar]

Assume your dollars won't buy much in the future. Forget instant microwave meals, forget phoning for pizza.

Learn to turn dried beans and flour into food and buy a little extra every time you shop to store.

Learn to cook like your grandma. It's easy, cheap and tasty.

Done and Done.

[erco]

A shame I've missed this discussion, for now all I'll add is that our garden tripled in size this year, and will triple again next year.

That, and not only have gun and ammunition sales gone through the roof, but sales of reloading equipment have as well, that's the real kicker!

[Perfesser]

Good job Erco!! It's getting a lot easier to find heirloom (non-hybrid) seeds. Use them if you can.

I doubled my own this year too.

I'm a lazy gardener, I look for stuff the bugs don't much bother. It's also the healthiest stuff, broccoli, collards and the like.

Lots of herbs to liven up bland meals.

This guy is saying that the US tried to crash an economy other than their own, or sort of to save their own.

They've said for a long time the end game would begin when China bails out of US dollars - the US consumer is used up and has nothing more to offer them.

Oil could be the key- oil is sold in US dollars, a war in the Middle East would increase oil uncertainty and create demand for the US dollar and prop things up.

Watch for them to demonize Iran and push for a war there.

I've read the end of the book. I hate to say it, but it's going to be even worse than you can imagine.

"But that these days were shortened no flesh would survive" I think is the quote you wanted to post without of course scaring the poop out of everyone reading these things for the first time.

It might be a good idea to search for "100 Items That Disappear First in a Disaster " and have a look down that list- see how you might fare.

[BadAim]

Actually there is a whole book's worth of scary stuff, but it's only scary if you believe that it's other than a fairy tale. Of course if you believe it, then death will hold as little fear for you as it does for me. (I'll grant that while death scares me much less than it used to, some of the ways of "getting dead" still scare the crap out of me)