Pc Replacement And Windows 10

[Kira]

The big question: Do I replace now, and believe them that they'll freely update Windows 7 to 10 when 10 comes out, or do I wait most of the year (and perhaps some of next), until Win 10 is out and get it with a new machine?
 
While my PC still works, it's almost 10 years old. I've discovered that I'm running things at pretty much at bare minimum settings now, and have lost out on much in the way of not only "ooo smooth" but also "oooo purty!".  Okay, smooth has in part to do with running scripts for (many, many) mods, which can't be helped (at least not entirely) with a new, far more capable machine, but still.
 
Additionally, I've found that hardware is starting to give up.  Like my (replaced) CD drive, that just gave up today.  Not really interested in throwing money at an old [ancient] machine, but not sure I should really believe that I won't have to buy a replacement OS for a fairly new machine when 10 comes out, assuming that I go ahead and buy within the next few months.
 
I think I pretty much answered my own question (It's failing, time to get something new that's far more capable and transfer your files before the whole thing goes poof.), but thought I'd run it by you guys.  I know enough not to just go after the first one I see, and have been getting by with an old machine in part due to that.
 
Another concern I have is with backwards comparability.  I ran XP for many years and discovered that 7 does seem to run the stuff I used to run on XP just fine.  Will the same be true of 10 or do I need to keep an extra 7 bootdisk  and run a dual OS machine?
 
Thanks much.
 
EDIT:  Current specs might be a good idea.
 
Motherboard: GA MA-770 UD3, AMD 770 chipset, Socket AM2, PCI-E x16, NV GeForce6150+nForce 430, HT 2000, VGA Integrated, DDR2 800, HDTV out, HD audio, Gb LAN, 1394a, SATA RAID, EZ Flash 2
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ (Dual core) 3GHz
Memory: 4 GB DDR2
Graphics: NVidia Geforce GT 240
PSU: 450W
OS: Win 7 32bit
HDD: 1x 250GB, 1x WD 2TB
SDD: 1x Kingston 120GB
 
 
*******
 
Proposed specs:
 
Motherboard: ASUS z97-A
CPU: Intel I7 4790K
Memory: 8GB (2x4GB) 1866 DDR3 (Kingston)
Graphics: Nvidia GTX 960 2GB
PSU: Corsair 750W
 
CPU fan: Unknown yet?  Apparently this comes with the CPU.

[FoolTrottel]

Go for Windows 7 now. 64bit.

 

It runs the game and everything just fine, and although 10 is on its way, do not wait for it.

And do not be trouble or worried about it. It's not there yet!

 

And, you can always upgrade to 10 later, if you get 7 now 8

 

Sure, you could also skip 7, and go for 8.1

[Kira]

Unfortunately, I've heard many horror stories about 8, being as it's essentially a laptop OS forced onto desktops (how the heck did they expect a touchscreen based OS to work on a desktop anyway?).  Think I'll go with 7 if I can find it with the machine I'm thinking up.  Then again, I suppose I could just keep the old disk I have and use that.

 

Agreed about 64 bit.  Seems to be "the way to go" lately.

 

Think I'll skip 8 and go directly to 10 (collecting $200 or no).

[DD_Arthur]

What FT said.

[SkyPup]

I agree with FT.  I was one of those old school guys who had to be dragged away from XP, but quickly became a Win7 fan.  It's a great OS.  And yes, 64 bit is the way to go.

[FoolTrottel]

But, Windows 10 is not here!

 

You are on failing hardware now, and want to wait 'till 10 is released?

 

Oh well...  

[DD_Brando]

I would get new hardware and Win7 64bit. For one thing; you are limited in usage to less than 3.5 Gb of DRAM in 32bit OS. 

 

Also, the word is that MS plan to give away Windows 10 to owners of 7 or 8.xx when it is released...You'll be blown away by the smoothness of modern computing.

[Jabo]

Like he said, go for windows 7 64-bit, pretend windows 8 & 8.1 never happened and let the user community sweat the bugs out of win 10 before switching. Another point is that I'm a beta tester for MS and we've not had 10 yet and that means it's at least six months away, probably more.

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[Kira]

I see.  Thanks all.  I'll keep you updated on this.  I did kinda think waiting for 10 was silly (suggested by a friend), but at the same time, his suggestion to go with a Dell through their "special build got built then the customer canceled, so here's the offer, pretty much at cost since we can't sell it as new" section seems like a really good deal.  He got his beast through that program about five years ago... and it'll still run circles around this one.  Took him two months of camping on the site in his spare time, but he finally got the machine he wanted.  Well, not the same as a "buy the components, put it together yourself... and don't screw up and fry it!", but worth it.  "Close enough, which is to say, not exact, but very close indeed." 

 

As I am planning to use this new computer as I have this one, that is the 8-10 year plan (until it quits or is so ridiculously slow it ain't funny), I need to be saving money where I can, while getting the best I can possibly afford that's not paying simply for "top of the line at this moment in time" status.  For example, the extra $100 for the jump from I5 to I7 is a no brainer.  Definitely going for an I7.  If only for electrical load.  According to CPUboss.com, they both run the same electrical load, but of course the I7 is much more capable, and thus economical.

 

CPU Boss on the I5 4460 vs I7 4790

 

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-4790-vs-Intel-Core-i5-4460

 

Questioning, for example, if the 4790 is "good enough" or if the extra $35 for the .4 GHz increase with the 4790K is worth it. (3.6GHz vs 4.0 GHz)  ...Considering the $100 from the I5 to I7 got .6 GHz, $35 for .4 more seems like a deal.

 

Passmark on the I7 4790 vs I7 4790K

 

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-4790+%40+3.60GHz&id=2226

[FoolTrottel]

" I need to be saving money where I can" and yet throw $100 into some performance you'll never use / notice?

Are you gonna be running benchmarks each and every day?

It must be me...

Oh, wait, its $135 even. Yeah, very economical...

 

Better put that money into an upgrade of the video card, or more memory... just my opinion...

[Kira]

I'll take all the opinions I can get FT.  Just crunching numbers right now, and coming out with crumbs and wishes!  Putting the thoughts in writing seems to help, as I can go back and look at thoughts and say "what wasss I thinking?" or "why didn't I think of that?!"

 

As I stated, this is early stages. I've been here before "I really should replace this thing.  Howzabout now?", but with the thing now having both mechanical failures and software faults, I'm suddenly convinced that "now" really is the time, rather than "later".  (Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right, and be serious!  Yeah, no idea where that came from.)

 

Looking at the graphics cards and finding anything with even a twitch on their scale costs more than I'm looking at for the CPU... for a graphics card.  That's ridiculous.

[Snacko]

NEVER be Bill Gates Beta Tester.  

[Jabo]

I assume you're using Linux Snacko? Lol

That's about right Kira, graphics cards generally cost more than the CPU. My GTX580 was four times more expensive than the i5 I use. This was a few years ago though

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[FoolTrottel]

What Jabo said ... it's all about eyecandy, not about calcandy!

[DD_Brando]

I would go with AMD if all you want is flightsimming and everyday stuff. An AMD4350 Quadcore on an AM3+ m/bd, with 8Gb of DDR 1866, a good quality 600W PSU, a solid-state drive SSD for your OS and progs, and a terabyte or two of mechanical drive. For superb eyecandy you could do worse than an AMD R9 290X. Sapphire make a good job with a 3 fan model. Catalyst drivers are well sorted out with a new release in December, the Omega drivers, no less Very stable

 

For all the above you are in at around $700 still needing a case and a copy of Win 7. Have a look here for ideas. I guess you would need to watch one of their films if you wanted to learn how to make the ultimate saving and build it yourself.

[Snacko]

No Jabo, so am still running Windows 7 x64 Beta 7998.3  

[B16Enk]

Running 8.1, aside from the bloody awful interface it is much more responsive than 7, and uses much less RAM.

 

I don't install in anything with 'Program' in the name of course, DCS runs smooth, not had a chance to see how IL2 runs yet but thinking it will be fine.

[Jabo]

Do you run in classic or metro mode Rog?

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[Kira]

I had a rethink.  My rethink went something like this:

 

"Why pay for a new case when my old one is working fine?  (What's to break on a case?) Why not learn how to build this thing myself?"  That way I get the system I want and save a bit on parts I already have that aren't life-limited (the case, for example).

 

I'm now having issues with my preliminary along that line of "what motherboards will/won't fit in a Thermaltake Shark case?".  Naturally, this precludes everything else.  No good getting an X if I can't plug it into the setup using the motherboards possible due to my case.  Still looking at replacement/addition of fans, but having paid almost $200 for the case (I think) way back when, I'm not of a mind to part with it easily, as there's nothing wrong with it physically; it is, after all, just a case.  It should work find for the long haul, shouldn't it?.

 

Got a friend who's into computers and builds/repairs them for a side job, so I've go expertise to go to when I need it.  He's the one who recomended Dell, but again, what'll I learn if I get someone else to build this?

 

Another point, just reading up on motherboards, and it seems that the motherboard, so long as it's working, has little to no effect on performance.  I know I might cause an issue with an old board simply due to age, but I really hate to toss stuff that's still working - yet am a tad leery about "what damage might it cause to newer components at the moment of failure?".  Perhaps the better bet is to just gut it and part it out.  I'm sure there's someone out there who'd actually use an old board, for whatever reason.

[Crash]

The motherboard dictates what processor you can fit and if its quite old it might not allow a later generation graphics card.

[Kira]

Aha!  Thank you Crash.  Sounds like it's new motherboard time.  I've looked it up, and there's no mention of the type of  graphics cards I'm looking at on the current board's stats (Gigabyte GA-MA770-UD3).  Not surprising, given the age of the board (around 8 years).  I think my rethink shall include a new motherboard.  I've a Thermaltake Shark case that I spent more for than I should have - with the intention of being able to gut it and replace old with new parts down the road.  I suspect that 'down the road' has arrived, and it's time to put that swap-out plan into motion.

[B16Enk]

Do you run in classic or metro mode Rog?

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Classic, such as it is.

 

I don't like the interface, I do like the resource usage though.

Desktop shortcuts are OK, but finding newly installed programs is a faff - Windows button -> search is not too different, then pinning to task bar or 'Start' which is the full screen version of what we are used to with 7.

[Jabo]

Motherboards tend to come in a few different formats - The ones you are most likely to come across are ATX and mATX (miini ATX IIRC). The good news is either will fit into the Shark case with plenty of room to spare - It's frickin' huge (I used to use one too)

 

Another point, just reading up on motherboards, and it seems that the motherboard, so long as it's working, has little to no effect on performance.

 

Yes, and then again no. The main problem is the socket type for your new processor. Whichever CPU you choose, your new mobo needs to have a corresponding socket otherwise it won't fit - This might sound a bit condescending, but you'd be surprised how many people fall into this trap. Fortunately it's pretty simple to work out. My mobo for example has an LGA 1155 socket (it's written on the box in large friendly letters - just like the Hitchikers Guide) which is the correct socket for the i5 2500K CPU I use. Don't assume it'll be the same socket for you (it almost certainly won't be), just make sure the mobo and CPU match.

 

The majority of modern graphics cards use a PCIEX16 socket - you need to make sure your mobo has at least one of these. Also to the best of my knowledge all graphics cards use additional power connectors which are fed directly from your PSU - it's better to have them wired directly if possible, but if you're not changing the PSU (and I really would) and don't have the right connectors, a few minutes on ebay will turn up lots of adaptors for just a few euros (substitute local currency of your choice)

 

Your mobo will also dictate the sort of RAM to buy, These days it's usually DDR3  - DDR or DDR2 will not fit.

 

Looking at the spec of my mobo all the above (apart from the PSU thing) looks like this (text in brackets is just explanation)

 

GA-Z77-D3H (mobo model) - Intel Z77rev.1.1 (chipset), Socket 1155 (CPU socket), PCI-Ex16 (Gfx card slot), ATX (mobo format), 4 DDR3 2-ch (number of RAM slots/type), 7.1-CH HD Audio (onboard sound card), GbE LAN (Gigabit Network card), 2 SATA 6Gb/s (number of SATA III sockets - the board has a further 4 SATA II sockets but they don't mention that), 6 USB3.0 (number of USB 3.0 sockets - again there's another 6 USB 2.0 sockets as well)

 

Check the spec details of your mobo and it'll have stuff that looks similar to the above - Alternatively pop your proposed purchases into this thread and someone will check that it should all fit together.

[Kira]

Thank's Jabo! 

 

I have an AMD board, and am seriously considering an I5, which, of course, wouldn't work.  My main concern with regards to the AMD version (FX 8350) is the prohibitive power consumption for comparative performance (roughly 45%(!) more according to CPUBoss.com).  Others here have decried my "want to save money" with "I5", asking why I'm considering buying more than I need.  My response, to myself, is that this current computer that is now in desperate need of replacement was over the "need" when I bought it, which is why it lasted as viable for so long (8-10 years, depending on parts in question).  I'm looking for long term viability here.  Thus, the AMD in that particular form isn't worth the front end savings.  Over time, the I5 3470 would pay for the difference in roughly four years according to my research, due the power usage savings alone.

 

You have a very good point about power supply.  I was (and to be honest still am) thinking of salvaging my 450W PSU, but the more I think about it, the less I like the idea of chancing several brand new parts to an old power unit.

 

I've done a little searching with regards to motherboards, and am overwhelmed, to say the least.  Not really sure where to start on that front, aside from learning about various ports, etc.  I am a bit concerned about "will my new board fit in the Shark case?", but what I've seen and read about that, it seems it may be okay, as long as I keep my eyes open.

 

It's looking more and more like my original plan of swapping a few parts just isn't going to fly due to bottlenecks elsewhere.  About the only thing I have going for my original plan of swap vs the Dell route is the fact that just about anything I want to put into the Shark case would be viable.  Rather than "It's a Dell.  Our parts, or no PC, take your pick."

 

What I don't know yet is cost as a whole vs parting out cost.  With a car, a whole car is far and away cheaper than the individual parts.  I'm already get this with PCs, but not much.  Seems to me from the Dell side, anyway, that the unit cost of individual parts may be cheaper than in store bought PC form.  It's a matter of getting what I want vs going with something "good enough".  There's also that perfectly good case shaped chunk of metal to consider.  That and not paying someone else to do it, and learning how to do something in the process as well.

 

I'm beginning to discover that "gaming PC" and "cheap(ish)" don't belong in the same sentence.

 

I just updated the first post with my current specs.  Will update proposed specs as I firm them up.

[Jabo]

Here's my rig spec Kira - plays everything we use here without any problems at all;

 

Intel i5 2500K

Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H

12GB DDR3 RAM (Corsair Vengeance - 2 x 4GB & 2 x 2GB) - only really need 8GB

Palit Nvidia GTX580 (3GB DDR5)

2 x 120GB OCZ SSD - only really need 1 (if at all)

1 x 1.5TB WD Black HDD

1 x 1 TB WD Black HDD (probably enough on it's own - and you don't need the black edition)

700W OCZ Modular PSU (complete overkill)

 

Cooling is by air - some coolermaster thing on the CPU - stock cooler would be OK

 

I reckon you can go close to this without paying the earth for it.