Rudder Usage In Flight

[Gothkrieger]

Am mainly using rudder in takeoffs and in flight basically to get the slip ball centred. I read someplace that rudder should be used in banked turns. I notice that in many of my aileron turns the ball is cantered, should I still be using rudder in the turn, I don’t seem to understand why if the turn is co-ordinated.

[Perfesser]

A bit of rudder as you enter the turn (before aileron) will make your aileron input quicker. In real life sticking the ailerons into the airstream causes yaw in the opposite direction of the turn. Rudder counteracts that. You're supposed to lead the turn with rudder.

At low speed when a wing starts to drop you raise it with rudder.

Overdo a high G turn and the inside wing will drop first into a snap roll. Save that with a large stab of rudder.

[Gustang]

Yeah, a centered ball is a good indicator that a turn is properly coordinated. Of course watching the ball is just about the last thing on my mind in a furball. I think your choice to use rudder also depends on the type of turn you want: nose down or up. It may be less obvious in WWII aircraft, but rudder is incredibly important for the WWI aircraft in RoF, for instance. In the DR1, it's pretty tough to turn left without applying left rudder prior as the nose tends to go up sharply when starting a left turn, due to the rotating engine.

Speaking of RoF, looking forward to flying tonight! (~9 EST)

[Kira]

I don't recall where I heard this, but apparently Japanese flight schools were center ball nazis. Consequently, an Allied pilot could be almost guaranteed that any Japanese pilot he encountered, regardless of skill, would fly coordinated, regardless. This gives those who don't insist on flying coordinated a major advantage. There are some maneuvers that are best preformed with the ball out of center, sometimes wayyy out of center. If kicking the rudder is what is needed in that particular point in time to get your guns (nose) on target, then forget about coordinated flight and do what you have to do to shoot down your opponent.

Keep in mind that in uncoordinated flight, you are presenting the side of the airplane to the slipstream in varying degrees, and thus increasing drag, slowing you down.

[BadAim]

I'm a big rudder thrasher. I find the rudder most useful in dogfights to pull really tight twisty spirals in the more maneuverable planes. At corner speed you can practically plant one wingtip of a KI-43 on a given point of sky and turn the plane right around it, you'll need lots of rudder and even more practice, but you'll send those P-40 drivers home talking to themselves. On planes with negative G cutout, you can bank the plane and use the rudder to "slide down the wing" if you need to bring the nose down. In conclusion, don't consider your rudder as just "that flappy thing at the back of me kite", it's a useful tool if properly understood.

[Bucky]

Hmm...

Well said BA about the flappy thing.

B.

[DD_Fenrir]

No-one mentioned gyroscopic precession?

Gothy, when you pull the nose up or down, you are applying a force to a gyroscope - your propellor. What this results in is an inherent yawing motion, and depending on which way the prop rotates depends on which way the nose will swing.

In right handed tractors - Spitfire Mks I, V, IX, Mustangs, P-40s, P47, Bf109, Fw190s, A6M etc - when you pull the nose up the nose will want to swing to the right and in direct proporton as to how hard your pulling back on the stick. The reverse is also true. Shove the nose down and it'll swing to the left. That's why when taking off, it's best not to push the nose down too hard too soon; that swing is exactly the same direction as the torque which is trying to pull you off the runway, so it ain't a good thing to exacerbate it as you can imagine.

Left-handed tractors include the Yak series, the Spitfire Mk XII & XIV, Typhoons, Tempests & Beaufighters. Pull the nose up on these a/c and the nose will naturally want to swing the the left.

The best way to see this is to try steep level turns at 60-80º angle of bank and without applying rudder input watch how the nose either pulls below the horizon or above depending on which way the turn is and what way your engine is handed. This will show on your slip ball, but it's better to get a feel for each a/c and be able to correct instinctively.

Why? The most important affect this has on is gunnery. Unless your sneaking up on an enemy in a clean tail chase or a direct bounce, chances are your turning with your foe to get lead on him - you're probably heaving the stick back and pulling the nose round hard to try and get a guns solution; given what we now now know about gyroscopic precession, as you can imagine your gonna be considerably uncoordinated, skidding or slipping if you're not correcting for the effect.

If you can correct for this characteristic without the need to check your turn & slip indicator you'll be doing yourself a favour; your gunnery will improve no end and your takeoffs and landings a liitle easier to boot. You'll also have more control at the limits of your a/c flight envelope because you'll no longer be uncoordinated in these conditions and less likely to stall or spin.

Hope this helps buddy!

[Gothkrieger]

Yes this is all helping, I have quite a few things to try out and practice now. No end of learning on this sim but that's OK, there would be no satisfaction if it was too easy.

I also find that I have to read things over several times to understand exactly what is being said as I am not a real pilot so I am learning about flight principles and terminology as I go along as well.

[DD_Fenrir]

Just to add quickly:

Slip: If you're in a turn and the nose of your a/c is pointed outside of the path the aircraft is actually flying through the turn then you are slipping.

Conversely

Skid: If you're in a turn and the nose of your a/c is pointed inside of the path the aircraft is actually flying through the turn then you are skidding.

Slipping increases drag and will degrade lift.

Skidding does both these things but because you are blanking airflow over the wing on the inside of the turn and pointing the thrust vector down (which causes the turn to tighten inherently and also roll the a/c into the turn) this can easily lead to a spin.

It's worth noting that any uncoordinated use of rudder (i.e the nose pointing left or right) in 'straight' flight (i.e no change of heading of the a/c flight path) is termed a sideslip: It can be useful to use a gentle sideslip when approaching to land and realising that you are a bit too high.

Sorry if you know this already but if you don't then it's useful terminology to know.

[delta7]

check out the articles here

http://www.simhq.com/_air/acc_library.html

by andy bush for good info

[Gothkrieger]

"Sorry if you know this already but if you don't then it's useful terminology to know."

Don't ever worry about this as I have way too much to learn to worry about being told something I might already know, which in this case in not the case.

Thanks