Stalingrad Campaign - Plane and Tank Sets / Numbers

[Friar]

Salute,

Development of the map has been going well. Thank you to those of you that have done some testing of the log for me. It is now time to think about the plane set and tank units before I start duplicating the capture points out across the map.

Plane Set

I was thinking of basing the planes on the BoS Premium set plus transport planes for each side, which would be as follows;

Russian

• Lagg-3 Series 29
• Yak-1 Series 69
• IL-2 AM-38 (Model 1942)
• Pe-2 Series 87
• La-5 Series 8
• C47a

German

• Bf 109 F-4
• Bf 109 G-2
• Ju87 D-3
• Fw-190 A-3
• Ju52
• Bf110-E2 (not part of plane set but added for balance)

He 111 H-6 (Is part of game plane set but I have opted to remove it)

What do you you think about the balance of this set? Happy to take advice from those that know if any swaps for game play should be made.

I also need to think about how many of each plane I have available at each air base. As you may or may not be aware there will the opportunity to capture and utilize a lot more air fields than we had in North Africa. There is the potential to have may be 7 or 8 on top of the default 2 each side will get at the start.

So should we therefore set lower thresholds of numbers, thus forcing each side to go and get extra airfields, not only for the numbers but also to take the fight closer to the enemy?

Again would welcome your suggestions.

 

TANKS

Russian

• T34 - 42 model
• T34 - 43 model
• KV-1s
• Churchill
• SU-122
• Gaz AAA

German

• Panzer iii-L
• Panzer iii-m
• Panzer iv
• Stug iii
• Panzer vi ("Tiger" but in limited numbers)
• Sd.Kfz Flak 38

 

Should I make any changes to this set? I went for the SU-122 as that has more ammo.

For the tanks I have had the idea that based on the size of the town sides will either get 100% of the units, 50% or 25%.

What do you think the 100% splits should be for this campaign?

Friar.

 

[Sid]

All interesting

I think the He111 should replace the Ju87. That would give each side 3 x dedicated fighters, 1 x ground attack (Sturmi and 110), 1 x bomber and 1 x transport. I agree with limiting the Tiger, it was at Stalingrad 1942 for the German withdrawal in battalion strength (approx 30 in number but this number is hugely debateable ), but it is a tank killer and almost invulnerable to ground attack aircraft. I believe the most prolific German tank in Stalingrad 42 was the Panzer III with less numbers of Panzer IV and Tiger. I think the tank choices are going to be the determining factor in how this goes. 

[Friar]

Ok, thanks Sid.

So the match-ups would be (and first go at numbers)

 

• PLANES                                                       
• Yak-1 Series 69        v      Bf109 G2              12  / 12
• Lagg-3 Series 29     v      Bf109 F4               12 / 12
• La-5 Series 8            v      Fw190 A3             8 / 8
• IL-2 AM-38               v      Bf110 E-2              6 / 6
• Pe-2 Series 87          v      He-111 H-6           6 / 6
• C47a                          v      Ju52                     4 / 4

 

• TANKS                                                                    100%                     50%                 25%(+/-)
• T34-42                     v     Panzer iii-L                       16 / 16                  8 / 8               4 / 4
• T34-43                     v     Panzer iii-M                      16 / 16                  8 / 8               4 / 4
• Churchill /                                                                  10                         5                      3
• Kv-1s                        v     Panzer iv                           10 / 20                  5 / 10               3 / 6
• Su-122                      v     Stug III                                4 / 4                    2/ 2                  1 / 1
•                                          Panzer vi (Tiger)                2 (only at certain locations)

 

Please let me know your thoughts....

[Sid]

I think that looks good however there should be some comparison 'play' to check gun performances between the T34s and the PZIIIs. The T34s were let down IRL by poor construction , quality control and poor crews - in game perhaps we are operating T34s that don't break down and have perfect guns. In contrast the PzIIIs were comparable because they had better construction, reliable guns and crews. I'd hate to be the one to suggest this is the way forward in our match without checking first - much can be read from many sources but we are using what we have in game, not what really happened.

[Sid]

Done some testing.....PzIII has the firepower to take out T34 76 1943. Both are similar, I would be happy with that but please, others look too. I did a 1 on 1 Quick mission in Stalingrad, 3 waves. Survived in both tanks despite a few hits on me, destroyed all 6 with standard APHE from 250 - 400 m

[fruitbat]

In real life there were no 190's in the battle of Stalingrad.

The La5 only turned up near the end to.

[Friar]

The set is taken from the BOS Premium addition? So in the interests of game play should I leave them in or remove them? 

[Sid]

How about take out the 190 and put in the Stuka? It is possibly more representative of the types there. Increase the number of 109s available by 50% and put in 50% numbers of Stukas.  

[fruitbat]

1 hour ago, Friar said:

The set is taken from the BOS Premium addition? So in the interests of game play should I leave them in or remove them? 

Depends how historical you want to be. From memory the LA 5's only appeared in large numbers from the time of the Russian counter offensive in Jan. The Fw 190, although part of the BOS Premium, never participated at Stalingrad. The first units on the eastern front were around the time of Stalingrad, but based in the central army group 150 miles or so north.

If it was me, I'd ditch the 190 cause it wasn't there,  and add in the LA 5 as the campaign progressed. 

[Sid]

1 hour ago, fruitbat said:

From memory the LA 5's only appeared in large numbers from the time of the Russian counter offensive in Jan.

Yep, they came in towards the end and were known as the 'Wooden Saviour of Stalingrad'. But, they were there so are probably more typical than the 190 which wasn't

[delta7]

13 hours ago, Friar said:

The set is taken from the BOS Premium addition? So in the interests of game play should I leave them in or remove them? 

Depends if you want historical accuracy or game balance, I'd go with game balance and either have both or neither 

For the German side I don't think many would fly the stuka, it's slow and very vulnerable, or the he 111 , as the me 110 is better for tactical targets, unless you put in additional targets like building s or supply depot etc that would count towards points victory 

[Friar]

I sent Deacon the same information as I posted above and below is his reply

My guys think the Su-122 is over powered vs the stuff. We would rather have equal numbers of the Tiger vs the su122 in all places. 

Cheers 

Nick

 

I think I will have to push back on this as the Tiger is far superior and we do not have a Stug equivilent.

[Sid]

it's only when you look things up it becomes more apparent how difficult the choices are....

The Su series of assault gun/tank destroyers came into being early 1943 after the Stugs were encountered so weren't at Stalingrad. They were designed to be used not as tank destroyers but as fortification busters hence the huge guns and the HE shells. Brute force as opposed to German accuracy and AP shells. Yes, they are powerful but are a pig to operate.

I agree, the Su and Tiger aren't an equivalent match but Ru doesn't have anything to kill Tigers. If anything, take out the Su and the Tiger.

[Friar]

@Sid - Thanks - very good information. I will pass your comments back to Deacon and see what he says. They will still have the Stug as well.

Regards

Friar

[Friar]

Deacon has responded and agreed to the removal of the SU and the Tiger.

I am now going to press on with the planes and tank sets as stated minus the Su and Tiger.

Thanks for your input everyone.

I have added 2 anti-tank units plus changed the ai setting on the AAA so will put up a new test mission shortly.

Friar

[Dragunov]

Can we have Ju 88 instead of He 111? Like Pe 2 vs Ju 88? 

[Crash]

I think we are going to be Russian

[=VARP=Thor]

Hello boys!

Not sure am i on the right place, but where can i sign up for axis side? Don't know how much time i will actually have to play, but add me please to who ever axis group is.

Thanks!

PS i liked a lot concept of your last campaign. It took lot of sweat to compete with you guys. Keep up the good work!

Cheers,

Thor

[Friar]

Hi Thor

The 352nd will be Axis again for this campaign. Do you have the email for Deacon? if not I will PM you.

Friar

[=VARP=Thor]

9 hours ago, Friar said:

Hi Thor

The 352nd will be Axis again for this campaign. Do you have the email for Deacon? if not I will PM you.

Friar

Yes, i have. Will contact him, thanks.

Thor

[Dragunov]

Hi!

VARP is ready for Sunday 21.05.

Thor , Kroat , Klingon - Axis side (352)

Hunter, Destroyer, Dragunov - Allies side (DangerDogz)

 

Hunter and Dragunov: ground attack ( Sturmovik)

Destroyer: fighter plane

We need pass for server and for TS. 

~S~