Training: Wingman Tactics - Who'd Be Up For That?

[Sweper]

Add me Ovy.

[Ovy]

There's a 50/50 chance Dizzy might come too - Swep can pair with Mick in that event

FT can you make another mission for the 4 (5) of us like teh one we ended last session?

[FoolTrottel]

Unfortunately, I won't be there, I'm a bit sick / ill.

 

However, have sent you a mission, 4 Blues, vs 6 Reds ... in your email!

 

Have fun guys!

 

 

[Painless]

Hope you are not too sick Arjen, get well soon m8 : )

[Ovy]

Thanks all who showed up,

 

next one Wed 19.30 .

 

Post here attendance:

1. Painless

2. Ovy

3. Swep

 

Come join the fun !

[Ovy]

IMHO we're not wasting time , and results of regular coops prove it ...it's still a long way to go..

Should we take a break this Saturday or if anyone is still good to go , one hour minimum, same time just say it , so by tomorrow we all know and make arrangements.

 

Cheers

[Ovy]

~S~ Gentlemen !

In regard to our common goal of establishing and honing the wing tactics and without having enough expertise and authority to judge anything i just share here my opinion, asking you to do the same . Also suggesting what to do in the incoming training in advance might be helpful , especially for creating such missions.

After last mission(s) it seems to ME we are not prepared yet for dogfights involving too many airplanes ( let's say more than 4...on each side) . Maybe we should keep practicing on each session 2 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 ( like Swep suggested) and , of course, for the fun to end up with one 4 vs ...2? 3? 4?.

We WILL do however ( if all agree) fighting in coops as 4 vs the rest of the world as it comes with the scenario trying to stick to eachother and not being selfish killers.

 

I was re-reading Perf's comment in this thread and agree wholeheartedly , so patience is a virtue , and repetition is the key to succes -to quote FT as well "i don't mind repetition.."

Cheers !

 

PS Who's in this Wednesday ?

1.Painless

2.Ovy

[Perfesser]

 

trying to stick to each other and not being selfish killers.

You've quickly found out that this is the key to fighting as a unit.

While it might seem like this is just lost opportunities for kills it's the difference between a quick fight where 2 of the enemy goes down and then one of you is damaged and a longer fight where ALL the bad guys are eventually eliminated.

You spot a bad guy and turn in. The guy in the best position to shoot becomes the leader. Wing tries to stay with him in trail and glance around. Always try to be the highest pair of planes in the fight.

Any enemy planes get above you, you're defensive, extend away and get sorted out.

When your target dives away, let him go. You'll easily kill him when he's struggling back up for altitude later.  If your target is dragging you down or another pair is climbing above you, break off and regain the energy advantage of altitude.

If one does get a shot, don't stay with the bad guy. 4 enemy damaged, limping home and out of the fight is better than 2 kills.

Take a shot, call "breaking up and left" then look for threats, check the tail of the shooter. Your wing takes a shot as he goes by and knows to break up and left to look for you. If he doesn't see you right away he calls "blind on you".  You tell him where to look "I'm medium (distance) your high 9".

My "whisper to wingman key" gets more use than the transmit key on TS.

 

The only problem with co-ops is that the enemy is always together in one location.

Online they come from any direction in ones and pairs, at any time during the fight. Even when fighting you're trying to spot others entering the battle.

Coops would be better for training if the fighters came in with more flights of 2. Maybe a dogfight with triggers so they're more random.

Or enemy on patrol routes that will engage if the fight wanders in to their view.

And......sorry but you gotta shut them icons off. You will spend a lot of time finding each other (I'm due north at 5500 feet) but this is a lot of what it takes after you get separated by some random pilot showing up in the fight and stripping off your wingman.

 

 

Here's a good video on formations - very much how we try to fly. We never get to fly as a 4 ship though. As pairs we take the 2 outside positions of the 4 ship formation, leaving the center as open space.

Only the first bit applies at this point, maybe 2:30 to 7 min

[Painless]

Quite happy to do what you want to do Ovy sir. I will be there Wednesday.

Excellent post Perf, it sums up much of what we have been trying to achieve.

[T_O_A_D]

Back when my eyes worked and hosting I forced custom icons, to only show at 200-300 yards or there bouts, because in real life no matter the video card you would be able to easily identify what you are looking at. In game not so much. When I first started flying with the Dogz my eyes were good, and the settings we play at made me lazy, and then the eyes went and I got even lazier LOL I still try to fly patent, and it was really nice to join in this last week and feel like we were flying together, not just on the same server.

 

I've got a track that proves patents, it from JO and one of Fire's AFS3 test of fortitude she would hand out.

I'll try and hunt it down. IIRC she wanted us to kill 4 with limited ammo, according to my tracks it looks like I peaked at 12, it took a lot of patents the wait for the shot, and not get shot, or just be satisfied with a hit and move on.

 

Looks like it was before the Zero skin update too, since these are not wrapped right. (

 

TOAD AFS3 kills 12.ntrk

 

Here is one with Strider and I working it, not very well as wingmen, but still we get 12.

 

TOAD StriderAFS3 practice Kill 12.ntrk

[Ovy]

If no one else is coming we'd better call it off tonight - two are not enough

~S~

[Sweper]

I'm in

[FoolTrottel]

 

[Ovy]

Geez, what a great oldie!!

[Painless]

I will be on in 20 mins : )

[FoolTrottel]

Well, this was quite a messy session.

 

Maybe it's just me, and I am flying way too much past few weeks... but I'm not feeling I'm learning that much ... lol

 

I'll start talking less and hold back on comments, I think I am just uttering some frustrations, and I'm adding way too many "but's". Does not help the flow.

 

And maybe, someone should select some suitable missions as preparation, in my opinion, we've had some fun, but also wasted some time left and right and center... sorry about that...

[Ovy]

Since it was my idea and i kinda pushed things up i am very keen on everyone's opinion and suggestions...and i agree with FT about not getting too much of anything from last session .

Sorry about it , i do believe it happened as we didn't prepare it well in advance, and i feel it was part of my ideas improperly translated into action without being explained or understood or set up online. Or plain irrelevant for the cause..

As for avoiding similarities in future i am asking all of you - if you agree the following:

- unless there is an agreement from miminum 4 players committed for Wednesday and enlisted not later than Monday we cancel the midweek session. In this respect i will make sure to keep the thread updated and see it through.

- Saturday session is subject to the above criteria , enlisted not later than Thursday

- one hour before Tuesday and Sunday regular coops is good for you?

- one hour session will consist of : one or two max.15 min 2 vs 1 , one 2 vs 2, one 4 vs  AI. (Maps, planes, settings, goals etc. will be discussed and prepared by the host to be handy, even sent by mail to the players in advance )

OR make a suggestion for the allocation of missions , what else you may want etc.

 

Please consider it as a POLL and reply .

 

I'm sure we'll do much better next time !

[Painless]

I agree that last night was messy and a bit frustrating. Inappropriate coop missions, no logical progression or improvement.

This is your show Ovy, that does not mean a democracy. Why not stick to your origional idea and just do 1 vs 2 , 2 vs 2 and just vary the aircraft types and altitude advantages. Practice and repeat. That would address all of the major issues that we are trying to improve on.......

COMMUNICATION

COMMUNICATION

COMMUNICATION

TACTICS

SITUATIONAL AWARENESS

GUNNERY

TEAMWORK.

This is also the most fun, Simples : )

P.

[Perfesser]

To learn the hard lessons you're occasionally going to get beat up.

If there's only 2 of you, go online, find a server and fly as a pair. Don't get sucked in to the low turning fights.

Evaluate your performance - what you did right, what you did wrong.  

[Ovy]

Like everything in real life there's got to be a hick up, i'm not worried about , we'll get past it. I saw it coming as we didn't know exactly who and what, sometimes our expectations are higher than our possibilities .  We have to bear to each other weakness and unvlountarily misfits, we're DangerDogz for many years ...

I suggest we go to the pub and sort it out , the guilty one paying the drinks....all right ...first ten rounds are on ME...

 

Once again ALL interested please reply to the Poll

[Crash]

Would it help to practice technique by running a coop against 2 or 3 AI set to rookie? It would be repeatable and we should be able to build up experience consistently flying and when we get better turn up the AI level.

[Ovy]

Yes Crash , absolutely . This why we need to know well in advance so to prepare the maps. Also thanks for your suggestion, it seems we just stepped too high too early. Gotta do it gradually.

[Painless]

When is the next session planned for Ovy ?

[T_O_A_D]

I made these Bracket practice coops for training with only two people, but more can take the enemy side if needed.

 

Tweak as needed, but they are hard enough as is with the new AI.

 

Fruitbat and I had our asses handed to us several times doing these a few years back.

 

1T_O_A_Ds_Wingman_Training.zip

[Ovy]

I am asking all of you - if you agree the following:

- unless there is an agreement from miminum 4 players committed for Wednesday and enlisted not later than Monday we cancel the midweek session. In this respect i will make sure to keep the thread updated and see it through.

- Saturday session is subject to the above criteria , enlisted not later than Thursday

- one hour before Tuesday and Sunday regular coops is good for you?

- one hour session will consist of : one or two max.15 min 2 vs 1 , one 2 vs 2, one 4 vs  AI. (Maps, planes, settings, goals etc. will be discussed and prepared by the host to be handy, even sent by mail to the players in advance )

OR make a suggestion for the allocation of missions , what else you may want etc.

 

Please consider it as a POLL and reply .